SALVATION IN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE (7 YEAR TRIBULATION):

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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
#1
SALVATION IN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE (7 YEAR TRIBULATION):

A look into what Salvation will be like in the Time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week) But before we do that, In this post, I will first provide a Scriptural proof to further show why the Church (the Body of Christ) cannot be on earth during this period of time known as Daniel's 70th week. Let us begin by first considering the following Scripture:

Daniel 9:22-27 KJV
And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. [23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. [24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the above passage of Scripture, we notice the great Vision and prophecy which is delivered unto Daniel. And it is a prophecy that 70 weeks. But not just weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years (70 x 7 =490 years total) are determined upon his people (the people of Israel), and that during this same time period, 6 things will be accomplished (To Finish the Transgression, To Make an End of Sin, To Make an atonement for Iniquity, Bring in Everlasting Righteousness, Seal up vision and Prophecy and Anoint the Most Holy). Now for those of us who have studied this interesting subject of Daniel's 70 weeks of Prophecy, I will simply presume that we know that 483 years have already been accomplished. And that at the end of those 483 years, the first Advent of Jesus Christ the Messiah took place and he was cut off via the Crucifixion before the Temple was destroyed. But of course He was not cut off for Himself, but for His people. And so all that is left of Daniel's weeks of years, is the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

But before the 70th week begins, the Church, the Body of Christ must be taken out of the Earth. Why? Simply because the Body of Christ, the Church was not upon the earth during Daniel's 69 weeks, and so it should make sense that the Church will also not be here for Daniel's 70th week. Daniel's 70 weeks Prophecy deals with his people, Israel as well as his holy city (the City of Jerusalem. And not the Church, which is why the 7 year tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble (Israel's trouble). It is not the Church's trouble.

Another important thing to key in on is what starts the beginning of this Final week of Daniel's prophecy. And that key is found in verse 27 of Daniel chapter 9. Where it says that he (referring to the Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (about halfway through 7 years) he shall cause the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he small make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Again, while there are many who claim that the "he" in verse 27 is Jesus Christ, That is definitely wrong, and also blasphemous. Because Jesus Christ did not commit the abomination of desolation.

Also, in addition, We can know the correct identity of the "he" in verse 27 by comparing Scripture with Scripture, and of course it affirms that the "he" in verse 27 is referring to the Antichrist when reading Daniel 8:9-13, Daniel 11:31-32, and Matthew 24:15-21, as well as 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

Therefore, from Daniel 9:27 we can conclude that the 70th week begins when the Antichrist confirms the Covenant. Not the peace treaty. Although there are a lot of prophecy teachers and others that say that what the Antichrist signs with Israel is a 7 year peace treaty, still though the King James Holy Bible does not say peace treaty. It says The Covenant. And this very covenant will be confirmed with many. And what is the Covenant that will be confirmed with many sometime after the Rapture? Well, simply put, it would have to be the Mosaic Covenant. I can say this because during Daniel's time and when he received this vision from the Angel Gabriel, the nation of Israel was still under the Mosaic Covenant. Animal sacrifices were still being done to atone for and to cover the sins of the people. And although this Covenant was done away with after the crucifixion of Christ, nevertheless it will be re-established during the time of Jacob's trouble. Since the Sacrificial system will be re-instituted that is connected with a rebuilt Temple. Hence, this is a solid Scriptural proof as well that teaches conclusively that the born again Christians, the Church (Body of Christ) will not be here for the 7 year Tribulation (Time of Jacob's trouble). For Jesus Christ was and is our sacrificial Lamb, He is our atonement. The Body of Christ, the Church has not one thing to do with the Mosaic Covenant and the Sacrificial system that is connected with it. The very idea that a person who received Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for sins, would have to go through Daniel's 70th week where there is a Temple and animal sacrifices being offered for sins, is simply absurd. It is ridiculous.

And finally, let us NOW consider what salvation will be like during Daniel's 70th week:
In the time of Jacob's trouble (7 year tribulation), salvation will be very, very similiar to that of the Old Testament. For consider some of the similarities;

*In the Old Testament, there were animal sacrifices (Exo. 24:5; Lev. 3:1-7; Deut. 12:6-14), likewise in the time of Jacob's trouble, there shall also be animal sacrifices (Daniel 9:27; Matt. 24:15).

*In the Old Testament there was a physical temple where the Sacrificial system was to be carried out (Exo. 29:42-44; 30:16; Ezra 6:5; Psa. 5:7; Psa. 11:4; Matt. 8:4) In the time of Jacob's trouble, there also will be a physical temple where sacrifice and oblation shall be done: (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Mark 14:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

Right now In this dispensation of the Church, the temple of God is not a physical building in Jerusalem, but rather it is within the Body of every born again Christian: (see 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19; & 2 Cor. 6:16).

Now Having said that; let's get back to the similarities.

*In the Old Testament, there was a division and distinction between Jews and Gentiles (Gen. 10:5; Exo.12:43; Exo.12:48-49; John 4:9; Matt.10:5-6; Matt. 15:24-28) Right now in the Church Age though, in regard to salvation, there is no distinction made between Jew or Gentile because when a Gentile gets saved, he becomes a Christian. And if a Jew gets saved, he also becomes a Christian. There is neither Jew nor Greek, for we are all one in Jesus Christ now (Gal. 3:28). However though, in the Time of Jacob's trouble, there will once again be a distinction made between Jews and Gentiles (See Revelation 7:3-12).


*In the Old Testament, no saint was born again; they did not experience the new birth, no Old Testament saint had the permanent indwelling of Christ (the inner man/new man) therefore they did not have a new nature, neither was anyone placed into the Body of Christ, neither were they members of His flesh or of His bones, no one was sealed with the Holy Spirit, no Old Testament saint had his soul cut loose from his flesh, no Old Testament saint had the mind of Christ, and no Old Testament saint was a part of the Bride of Christ. Brethren, this should at least begin to show you how different salvation and the means thereof was like for a saint in the Old Testament under the Mosaic Covenant, and Likewise, during Daniel's 70th week (the time of Jacob's trouble) when the Mosaic Covenant is back in operation, Salvation will be very similar in that Tribulation saints will not be born again, they will not be regenerated. Which explains why they must endure unto the end, because without the New Birth and without the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost, there will be nothing to seal and secure the salvation of a Tribulation saint. It's just as brother Timothy Morton taught in his work; when he mentioned that salvation for those in the tribulation will be on a trial like basis like it was under the Old Testament, and one of the differences though would be this, that the Old Testament saints were saved on Credit since obviously Christ's ultimate sacrifice had not yet been offered back then during their time. Nevertheless, still though, even during Daniel's 70th week ( after Christ's atoning death and resurrection had already been accomplished in order to provide a propitiation for the sins of the whole world) the Tribulation Saints will also be saved on a trial like and probationary basis since works must be added with their faith and since they must endure unto the end in order to be saved (Matt. 24:13). There are some which claim that Jesus is speaking of Physical salvation only; and my response to that is this. I also believe that the salvation Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 is physical, and yet I also believe that physical salvation is connected with eternal salvation because when you read in Matthew 25:31-46, we see that those who did not make it into the Millennial Kingdom were cast into Hell Fire (Matt. 25:41). And those people were the goats, they were of the Nations who did not help out Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble, they are the ones who did not endure unto the end, but rather they took the Mark of the Beast and worshipped the Antichrist.

And in conclusion, this brings me to my final point which is this. Salvation in the Time of Jacob's trouble is similar to Salvation in the Old Testament in that works are required in both. Read Matthew 25, read the whole chapter and see if you can find faith mentioned in there once. You won't. But what you will find is works, from beginning to end. In verse 3, we read that the foolish virgins did take their lamps, but that they did not take any oil with them (a type of work) and then in verse 4, we read that the wise virgins took oil in their vessels with their lamps (they had the right kind of works). And notice these right kind of works helped the wise virgins to gain access into the marriage, while the foolish virgins were not permitted to enter the wedding. Now they did have works, but the foolish virgins had the wrong kind of works. Then also in the next parable, which is the parable of the talents, notice that the servants which gained other talents for their Lord in addition to the ones that He gave unto them, they received a reward, and inheritance and also gained access into the Millennial Kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, but the unprofitable servant who hid his talent and did not have any good works to show to his Lord, that same servant was cast into outer darkness. That slothful servant was not permitted entrance into the Messianic Kingdom of Heaven. And then when Jesus afterward speaks of the Judgment of the Nations from Matt. 25:31-46, he mentions works also. Those who helped the Jews by feeding them (a work), giving them drink (a work) visiting them in prison (a work), and clothed them (a work) these are the ones who were permitted to enter into the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ the Messiah. And then the contrast; those who did not do the works mentioned, those who did not help the Jews, who did not visit them, nor feed them or clothe them, these people who are void of any good works, they were cast into Hell Fire. And why? because they didn't have faith? That is not what the passage says, it is because they did not do the necessary works required to secure their salvation.

It should therefore be clear brethren, that salvation and the means thereof in Daniel's 70th week, in the time of Jacob's trouble will not at all be the same as the salvation that we know of today, in this current Dispensation of the Church. For it will be very different from that of the Church Age, and yet as already shown, it will be similar to that of the Old Testament.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#3
SALVATION IN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE (7 YEAR TRIBULATION):

A look into what Salvation will be like in the Time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week) But before we do that, In this post, I will first provide a Scriptural proof to further show why the Church (the Body of Christ) cannot be on earth during this period of time known as Daniel's 70th week. Let us begin by first considering the following Scripture:

Daniel 9:22-27 KJV
And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. [23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. [24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In the above passage of Scripture, we notice the great Vision and prophecy which is delivered unto Daniel. And it is a prophecy that 70 weeks. But not just weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years (70 x 7 =490 years total) are determined upon his people (the people of Israel), and that during this same time period, 6 things will be accomplished (To Finish the Transgression, To Make an End of Sin, To Make an atonement for Iniquity, Bring in Everlasting Righteousness, Seal up vision and Prophecy and Anoint the Most Holy). Now for those of us who have studied this interesting subject of Daniel's 70 weeks of Prophecy, I will simply presume that we know that 483 years have already been accomplished. And that at the end of those 483 years, the first Advent of Jesus Christ the Messiah took place and he was cut off via the Crucifixion before the Temple was destroyed. But of course He was not cut off for Himself, but for His people. And so all that is left of Daniel's weeks of years, is the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

But before the 70th week begins, the Church, the Body of Christ must be taken out of the Earth. Why? Simply because the Body of Christ, the Church was not upon the earth during Daniel's 69 weeks, and so it should make sense that the Church will also not be here for Daniel's 70th week. Daniel's 70 weeks Prophecy deals with his people, Israel as well as his holy city (the City of Jerusalem. And not the Church, which is why the 7 year tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble (Israel's trouble). It is not the Church's trouble.

Another important thing to key in on is what starts the beginning of this Final week of Daniel's prophecy. And that key is found in verse 27 of Daniel chapter 9. Where it says that he (referring to the Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (about halfway through 7 years) he shall cause the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he small make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Again, while there are many who claim that the "he" in verse 27 is Jesus Christ, That is definitely wrong, and also blasphemous. Because Jesus Christ did not commit the abomination of desolation.

Also, in addition, We can know the correct identity of the "he" in verse 27 by comparing Scripture with Scripture, and of course it affirms that the "he" in verse 27 is referring to the Antichrist when reading Daniel 8:9-13, Daniel 11:31-32, and Matthew 24:15-21, as well as 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

Therefore, from Daniel 9:27 we can conclude that the 70th week begins when the Antichrist confirms the Covenant. Not the peace treaty. Although there are a lot of prophecy teachers and others that say that what the Antichrist signs with Israel is a 7 year peace treaty, still though the King James Holy Bible does not say peace treaty. It says The Covenant. And this very covenant will be confirmed with many. And what is the Covenant that will be confirmed with many sometime after the Rapture? Well, simply put, it would have to be the Mosaic Covenant. I can say this because during Daniel's time and when he received this vision from the Angel Gabriel, the nation of Israel was still under the Mosaic Covenant. Animal sacrifices were still being done to atone for and to cover the sins of the people. And although this Covenant was done away with after the crucifixion of Christ, nevertheless it will be re-established during the time of Jacob's trouble. Since the Sacrificial system will be re-instituted that is connected with a rebuilt Temple. Hence, this is a solid Scriptural proof as well that teaches conclusively that the born again Christians, the Church (Body of Christ) will not be here for the 7 year Tribulation (Time of Jacob's trouble). For Jesus Christ was and is our sacrificial Lamb, He is our atonement. The Body of Christ, the Church has not one thing to do with the Mosaic Covenant and the Sacrificial system that is connected with it. The very idea that a person who received Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for sins, would have to go through Daniel's 70th week where there is a Temple and animal sacrifices being offered for sins, is simply absurd. It is ridiculous.

And finally, let us NOW consider what salvation will be like during Daniel's 70th week:
In the time of Jacob's trouble (7 year tribulation), salvation will be very, very similiar to that of the Old Testament. For consider some of the similarities;

*In the Old Testament, there were animal sacrifices (Exo. 24:5; Lev. 3:1-7; Deut. 12:6-14), likewise in the time of Jacob's trouble, there shall also be animal sacrifices (Daniel 9:27; Matt. 24:15).

*In the Old Testament there was a physical temple where the Sacrificial system was to be carried out (Exo. 29:42-44; 30:16; Ezra 6:5; Psa. 5:7; Psa. 11:4; Matt. 8:4) In the time of Jacob's trouble, there also will be a physical temple where sacrifice and oblation shall be done: (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Mark 14:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

Right now In this dispensation of the Church, the temple of God is not a physical building in Jerusalem, but rather it is within the Body of every born again Christian: (see 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 1 Cor. 6:19; & 2 Cor. 6:16).

Now Having said that; let's get back to the similarities.

*In the Old Testament, there was a division and distinction between Jews and Gentiles (Gen. 10:5; Exo.12:43; Exo.12:48-49; John 4:9; Matt.10:5-6; Matt. 15:24-28) Right now in the Church Age though, in regard to salvation, there is no distinction made between Jew or Gentile because when a Gentile gets saved, he becomes a Christian. And if a Jew gets saved, he also becomes a Christian. There is neither Jew nor Greek, for we are all one in Jesus Christ now (Gal. 3:28). However though, in the Time of Jacob's trouble, there will once again be a distinction made between Jews and Gentiles (See Revelation 7:3-12).


*In the Old Testament, no saint was born again; they did not experience the new birth, no Old Testament saint had the permanent indwelling of Christ (the inner man/new man) therefore they did not have a new nature, neither was anyone placed into the Body of Christ, neither were they members of His flesh or of His bones, no one was sealed with the Holy Spirit, no Old Testament saint had his soul cut loose from his flesh, no Old Testament saint had the mind of Christ, and no Old Testament saint was a part of the Bride of Christ. Brethren, this should at least begin to show you how different salvation and the means thereof was like for a saint in the Old Testament under the Mosaic Covenant, and Likewise, during Daniel's 70th week (the time of Jacob's trouble) when the Mosaic Covenant is back in operation, Salvation will be very similar in that Tribulation saints will not be born again, they will not be regenerated. Which explains why they must endure unto the end, because without the New Birth and without the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost, there will be nothing to seal and secure the salvation of a Tribulation saint. It's just as brother Timothy Morton taught in his work; when he mentioned that salvation for those in the tribulation will be on a trial like basis like it was under the Old Testament, and one of the differences though would be this, that the Old Testament saints were saved on Credit since obviously Christ's ultimate sacrifice had not yet been offered back then during their time. Nevertheless, still though, even during Daniel's 70th week ( after Christ's atoning death and resurrection had already been accomplished in order to provide a propitiation for the sins of the whole world) the Tribulation Saints will also be saved on a trial like and probationary basis since works must be added with their faith and since they must endure unto the end in order to be saved (Matt. 24:13). There are some which claim that Jesus is speaking of Physical salvation only; and my response to that is this. I also believe that the salvation Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 is physical, and yet I also believe that physical salvation is connected with eternal salvation because when you read in Matthew 25:31-46, we see that those who did not make it into the Millennial Kingdom were cast into Hell Fire (Matt. 25:41). And those people were the goats, they were of the Nations who did not help out Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble, they are the ones who did not endure unto the end, but rather they took the Mark of the Beast and worshipped the Antichrist.

And in conclusion, this brings me to my final point which is this. Salvation in the Time of Jacob's trouble is similar to Salvation in the Old Testament in that works are required in both. Read Matthew 25, read the whole chapter and see if you can find faith mentioned in there once. You won't. But what you will find is works, from beginning to end. In verse 3, we read that the foolish virgins did take their lamps, but that they did not take any oil with them (a type of work) and then in verse 4, we read that the wise virgins took oil in their vessels with their lamps (they had the right kind of works). And notice these right kind of works helped the wise virgins to gain access into the marriage, while the foolish virgins were not permitted to enter the wedding. Now they did have works, but the foolish virgins had the wrong kind of works. Then also in the next parable, which is the parable of the talents, notice that the servants which gained other talents for their Lord in addition to the ones that He gave unto them, they received a reward, and inheritance and also gained access into the Millennial Kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, but the unprofitable servant who hid his talent and did not have any good works to show to his Lord, that same servant was cast into outer darkness. That slothful servant was not permitted entrance into the Messianic Kingdom of Heaven. And then when Jesus afterward speaks of the Judgment of the Nations from Matt. 25:31-46, he mentions works also. Those who helped the Jews by feeding them (a work), giving them drink (a work) visiting them in prison (a work), and clothed them (a work) these are the ones who were permitted to enter into the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ the Messiah. And then the contrast; those who did not do the works mentioned, those who did not help the Jews, who did not visit them, nor feed them or clothe them, these people who are void of any good works, they were cast into Hell Fire. And why? because they didn't have faith? That is not what the passage says, it is because they did not do the necessary works required to secure their salvation.

It should therefore be clear brethren, that salvation and the means thereof in Daniel's 70th week, in the time of Jacob's trouble will not at all be the same as the salvation that we know of today, in this current Dispensation of the Church. For it will be very different from that of the Church Age, and yet as already shown, it will be similar to that of the Old Testament.
The temple will be built during troublous times You agree as yet this prophecy has not yet been fulfilled .
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#4
Hi, You are wrong and Dave Reagan is wrong because both of you are trying to present an end time scenario built on the belief that the pre-trib rapture teaching is in the bible. You will never find a pre-trib rapture teaching in the bible, those who claim to find it have resorted to dishonest manipulation. I am sorry but that is the absolute truth. One can look up the pre-tribulation rapture in the encyclopedia and it will tell you that it was started by John Darby around 1830. Jesus told us of His return to rapture the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13 and Jesus said that it would happen after the tribulation, not before. I choose to believe Jesus Christ, no offense meant to you folks, but you have been deceived by Satan into believing a lie.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#5
I have another question
did you forget that the GOSPEL, even during this time, will be preached?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#6
SALVATION IN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE (7 YEAR TRIBULATION):

Therefore, from Daniel 9:27 we can conclude that the 70th week begins when the Antichrist confirms the Covenant. Not the peace treaty. Although there are a lot of prophecy teachers and others that say that what the Antichrist signs with Israel is a 7 year peace treaty, still though the King James Holy Bible does not say peace treaty. It says The Covenant. And this very covenant will be confirmed with many. And what is the Covenant that will be confirmed with many sometime after the Rapture? Well, simply put, it would have to be the Mosaic Covenant. I can say this because during Daniel's time and when he received this vision from the Angel Gabriel, the nation of Israel was still under the Mosaic Covenant. Animal sacrifices were still being done to atone for and to cover the sins of the people. And although this Covenant was done away with after the crucifixion of Christ, nevertheless it will be re-established during the time of Jacob's trouble. Since the Sacrificial system will be re-instituted that is connected with a rebuilt Temple. Hence, this is a solid Scriptural proof as well that teaches conclusively that the born again Christians, the Church (Body of Christ) will not be here for the 7 year Tribulation (Time of Jacob's trouble). For Jesus Christ was and is our sacrificial Lamb, He is our atonement. The Body of Christ, the Church has not one thing to do with the Mosaic Covenant and the Sacrificial system that is connected with it. The very idea that a person who received Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for sins, would have to go through Daniel's 70th week where there is a Temple and animal sacrifices being offered for sins, is simply absurd. It is ridiculous.
ChosenbyHIM ,,,I think you will find the answer to the covenant by many in Isaiah 28:14-18
 
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#7
Here is an interesting thought, no where in the bible does it tell us that there will be a seven year tribulation, the reign of the Antichrist is three and one half years long. The seven year idea has come about by the assumption that 69 of the 70 weeks described in Daniel have already happened and one 7 to go, and also where a HE confirms the covenant with many for one 7. The bible puts the emphasis on three and one half years, not seven years.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#8
Here is an interesting thought, no where in the bible does it tell us that there will be a seven year tribulation, the reign of the Antichrist is three and one half years long. The seven year idea has come about by the assumption that 69 of the 70 weeks described in Daniel have already happened and one 7 to go, and also where a HE confirms the covenant with many for one 7. The bible puts the emphasis on three and one half years, not seven years.
What part of the 21 days do you think the lord is delayed

the first part when the earthly temple is being rebuilt?
or afterwards when all havoc breaks lose?

Please refer to Daniel


HE is delayed during the first part of the tribulation
afterwards, who do you think is fighting (with Michael) for HIS people?


21 days HE hides his face from Jacob's troubles
but afterwards?

no HE doesnt
HE begins HIS second ministry as the Lion of the tribe of Judah
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#9
Please refer to Daniel 10
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
#10
Here is an interesting thought, no where in the bible does it tell us that there will be a seven year tribulation, the reign of the Antichrist is three and one half years long. The seven year idea has come about by the assumption that 69 of the 70 weeks described in Daniel have already happened and one 7 to go, and also where a HE confirms the covenant with many for one 7. The bible puts the emphasis on three and one half years, not seven years.
Hello samuel23,

Daniel 9:27 sets the stage for that last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. First the antichrist makes his agreement with Israel establishing that last seven years, which will allow Israel to build her temple. Then as you know, 3 1/2 years after the agreement (in the middle) the abomination will be set up in the holy place (Matt.24:15) where he will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease. It is during this time also when he will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped (2 Thes.2:4). Though many of Israel will be killed, once the abomination has been set up, it will cause the desolation of Jerusalem where the woman/Israel will flee out into the desert where she be cared for during that last 3 1/2 years (Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6,14).

During this same time, the beast/antichrist will be given power and authority to make war and to conquer the great tribulation saints, which will be those Gentiles introduced in Rev.7:9-17. This is the same group that John sees beheaded and resurrected in Rev.20:4-6.

However, God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, including the plagues performed by the two witnesses, will begin at the on-set of the seven years, which will affect all of the inhabitants of the earth. Therefore, the Bible puts the emphasis on that last seven years and that because 69 of the seven year periods have already been fulfilled, with one seven year period yet to be fulfilled.
 
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J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
#11
Christianity generally falls into two camps regarding Israel in the New Covenant.

1) It is the Church
2) It is a group of people who claim to be descended from Judah the patriarch. (As he lived almost 4000 years ago, it is not unreasonable to say 'claim' here).

The second thesis informs a lot of Church activity; many Christian websites ask for prayers and donations for the state of Israel.
Having Daniel's 70th week projected into the future is a necessary adjunct to the second thesis. The 70th week in the future can only function if Israel continues to exist as the Old Covenant people.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#12
Sigh! It would be nice if the bible was as clear as many declare it to be, there are really serious problems with the popular idea of a temple being built and the Antichrist making a covenant with Israel for 7 years. First, everyone is saying that the AC makes a covenant with Israel for 7 years when the bible just does not say that, it says that "he will confirm THE covenant". Folks at the end of the 69 weeks Jesus confirmed the covenant made to Israel, that is a fact. Also, there is no way that God rejecting Jews can make a Temple of God, that also is a fact. I have noticed that so many people in our time go at bible prophecy much like the fellow who bought a pair of shoes and found that they did not fit, now in order to make it appear that he had indeed made the right choice, he just cut a hole in the end of each shoe, let his toes hang out, and pretended that everything fit.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#13
Christianity generally falls into two camps regarding Israel in the New Covenant.

1) It is the Church
2) It is a group of people who claim to be descended from Judah the patriarch. (As he lived almost 4000 years ago, it is not unreasonable to say 'claim' here).

The second thesis informs a lot of Church activity; many Christian websites ask for prayers and donations for the state of Israel.
Having Daniel's 70th week projected into the future is a necessary adjunct to the second thesis. The 70th week in the future can only function if Israel continues to exist as the Old Covenant people.
Do you think a temple will be rebuilt?
and do you think GOD's approval that a temple be rebuilt?

further
has 2 Thessalonians 2 happened yet
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#14
2Thess 2 is a description of the rapture of the church with a warning from Paul not to be deceived because the rapture of the church cannot occur until after the revealing of the Antichrist, this of course proves that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture of the church because the Antichrist has his reign during the tribulation period.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#15
SALVATION IN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE (7 YEAR TRIBULATION):

A look into what Salvation will be like in the Time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week)
Since when is Daniels seventieth week the time of Jacob's trouble? That is a myth,
But before we do that, In this post, I will first provide a Scriptural proof to further show why the Church (the Body of Christ) cannot be on earth during this period of time known as Daniel's 70th week. Let us begin by first considering the following Scripture:
But it WILL

Daniel 9:22-27 KJV
And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. [23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. [24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In the above passage of Scripture, we notice the great Vision and prophecy which is delivered unto Daniel. And it is a prophecy that 70 weeks. But not just weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years (70 x 7 =490 years total)
It DOESN'T say seventy weeks of years it says seventy sevens,

are determined upon his people (the people of Israel), and that during this same time period, 6 things will be accomplished (To Finish the Transgression, To Make an End of Sin, To Make an atonement for Iniquity, Bring in Everlasting Righteousness, Seal up vision and Prophecy and Anoint the Most Holy). Now for those of us who have studied this interesting subject of Daniel's 70 weeks of Prophecy, I will simply presume that we know that 483 years have already been accomplished.
seventy sevens in fact.

A
nd that at the end of those 483 years, the first Advent of Jesus Christ the Messiah took place and he was cut off via the Crucifixion before the Temple was destroyed. But of course He was not cut off for Himself, but for His people. And so all that is left of Daniel's weeks of years, is the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.
which immediately follow on the sixty ninth seven. The seventy years was not divided up, why should the seventy sevens?,

But before the 70th week begins, the Church, the Body of Christ must be taken out of the Earth.
Nonsense.:)

Why? Simply because the Body of Christ, the Church was not upon the earth during Daniel's 69 weeks, and so it should make sense that the Church will also not be here for Daniel's 70th week.

It is Messiah's people continuing

Daniel's 70 weeks Prophecy deals with his people, Israel as well as his holy city (the City of Jerusalem. And not the Church, which is why the 7 year tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble (Israel's trouble). It is not the Church's trouble.
The time of Jacob's trouble has been going on since 70 ad. It has nothing to do with the seventieth seven.
.
Another important thing to key in on is what starts the beginning of this Final week of Daniel's prophecy. And that key is found in verse 27 of Daniel chapter 9. Where it says that he (referring to the Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years).

The 'he' in Hebrew looks back to the nearest antecedent, and that is the Messiah Who has been cut off. Alternately it may be referring to God.

: and in the midst of the week (about halfway through 7 years) he shall cause the oblation to cease,
Who will? Either the Messiah or God. This happened when He died as a sacrifice for sins replacing all other sacrifices. But first He 'confirmed the covenant' with His people. 'The covenant in Daniel ALWAYS means God's covenant

and for the overspreading of abominations he small make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
read more correctly 'and upon the wing of abomination comes one who makes desolate'. Abomination means idol worship. This was to follow the crucifixion, as the abomination arose.

Again, while there are many who claim that the "he" in verse 27 is Jesus Christ, That is definitely wrong, and also blasphemous. Because Jesus Christ did not commit the abomination of desolation.
But He did confirm the covenant with the Jews, whereas the rest of the sentence is indeterminate.

Also, in addition, We can know the correct identity of the "he" in verse 27 by comparing Scripture with Scripture, and of course it affirms that the "he" in verse 27 is referring to the Antichrist when reading Daniel 8:9-13, Daniel 11:31-32, and Matthew 24:15-21, as well as 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
The verses are not referring to the Anti-Christ in any of those verses,.

Therefore, from Daniel 9:27 we can conclude that the 70th week begins when the Antichrist confirms the Covenant.
We actually confirm that Jesus Christ confirmed the covenant.

Not the peace treaty.
The covenant in Daniel is always THE COVENANT. The rest are peace treaties or alliances,

Although there are a lot of prophecy teachers and others that say that what the Antichrist signs with Israel is a 7 year peace treaty, still though the King James Holy Bible does not say peace treaty. It says The Covenant.
quite'.

And this very covenant will be confirmed with many.
as it was by Christ.

And what is the Covenant that will be confirmed with many sometime after the Rapture?
where is the rapture mentioned?

Well, simply put, it would have to be the Mosaic Covenant.
OR the new covenant?

I can say this because during Daniel's time and when he received this vision from the Angel Gabriel, the nation of Israel was still under the Mosaic Covenant.
But God had promised a new covenant.

Animal sacrifices were still being done to atone for and to cover the sins of the people. And although this Covenant was done away with after the crucifixion of Christ, nevertheless it will be re-established during the time of Jacob's trouble. Since the Sacrificial system will be re-instituted that is connected with a rebuilt Temple.
No atoning sacrifices can ever again legitimately be set up., especially at the behest of God.

Hence, this is a solid Scriptural proof as well that teaches conclusively that the born again Christians, the Church (Body of Christ) will not be here for the 7 year Tribulation (Time of Jacob's trouble).
Or a fallacy?


For Jesus Christ was and is our sacrificial Lamb, He is our atonement.
He is the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, including the jews.

The Body of Christ, the Church has not one thing to do with the Mosaic Covenant and the Sacrificial system that is connected with it.
Nor has God.

The very idea that a person who received Jesus Christ and His blood atonement for sins, would have to go through Daniel's 70th week where there is a Temple and animal sacrifices being offered for sins, is simply absurd. It is ridiculous.
Which means it has to be rejected,

And finally, let us NOW consider what salvation will be like during Daniel's 70th week:
In the time of Jacob's trouble (7 year tribulation), salvation will be very, very similiar to that of the Old Testament. For consider some of the similarities;
Neither is there salvation in ANY OTHER.


*In the Old Testament, there were animal sacrifices (Exo. 24:5; Lev. 3:1-7; Deut. 12:6-14), likewise in the time of Jacob's trouble, there shall also be animal sacrifices (Daniel 9:27; Matt. 24:15).
You are mistaken. They CEASED at the cross.

*In the Old Testament there was a physical temple where the Sacrificial system was to be carried out (Exo. 29:42-44; 30:16; Ezra 6:5; Psa. 5:7; Psa. 11:4; Matt. 8:4) In the time of Jacob's trouble, there also will be a physical temple where sacrifice and oblation shall be done: (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Mark 14:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
Are you suggesting they are legitimised by God? I've had enough of this blasphemy.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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#16
Do you think a temple will be rebuilt?
and do you think GOD's approval that a temple be rebuilt?

further
has 2 Thessalonians 2 happened yet
Yep.
Nope.
Nope.

I have no idea though why the Church gets in a sweat about any of this.

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
1 Corinthians 3:16

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#18
so many gospels...............
Instead of fooling around with internet forums it may be a more prudent us of your time to dig deep into the Scriptres for yourself and therefore become established in the truth.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
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#19
2Thess 2 is a description of the rapture of the church with a warning from Paul not to be deceived because the rapture of the church cannot occur until after the revealing of the Antichrist, this of course proves that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture of the church because the Antichrist has his reign during the tribulation period.
You can't set up the abomination until after the temple is rebuilt

And Paul's directive to th believing body not to be deceived is not because he was reminding them of the rapture but because he was reminding them to expect evil to run rampant when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way

Evil and the man of lawlessness can't have full reign until GOD (temporarily) let's go/removes HIS HEDGE/is taken out of the way
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#20
There are a number of OT passages that refer to the day of the Lord that tie up with what Jesus said in Matthew 24 about what happens AFTER the tribulation.

Behold the day of the Lord cometh cruel both with wrath and fierce anger to lay the land desolate and he shall destrtoy the sinners thereof out of it. c For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light, the Sun shall not cause her light to shine And I will punish the world for their evil and the wicked for their iniquity and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible

Isa 13:9-11

The earth shall quake before them the heavens shall tremble the Sun and Moon shall withdraw their shining. And the lord shall utter his voice before his army for his camp is very great for he is strong that execute his word for the day of the lord is terrible and who can abide it?

Joel 2:10-11

The Sun shall be turned into darkness and the Moon into Blood before the great and terrible day of the lord come

Joel 10:31

Multitudes multitudes in the valley of decision for the day of he lord is near in the valley of decision. The Sun and the Moon shall be darkened and the stars shall withdraw their shining

Joel 3:14-15

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the Sun be darkened and the Moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn when they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds

Matt 24:29-31

In these verses the day of the Lord is described and each one refers to the Moon and Sun not giving light and stars falling.
Jesus says the same about the Moon and Stars. He says it happens after the tribulation he also says that the elect will be gathered from the four winds. Again he says this happens after the tribulation. How clearer does it need to be that the rapture happens after the tribulation on the day of the Lord and not before it?
 
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