Its nothing to figure out, and there is always going to be opposition to the Truth. A lost person is just that lost, dead, cant do a thing spiritually.
Romans 10:13
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
While that is true, the working of salvation in a person is a mysterious work of the Holy Spirit. And laying it out in step by step events is not possible.
So to let you know that i do not believe in decisionism, niether do i believe Calvin. The Bible says a lot of things on the matter and it clearly says salvation is a work of God, and that a man damned is by his own will.
You can spin it anyway you want, a lost person, a dead person cant do anything spiritually.
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Did you read what I wrote, or did you impose upon what i your interpretation and feelings.
See we are now coming back to the moral issue of stupidity.
Because i also said that i reject the assumptions of Calvin you automatically imposed decisionism upon my words. Neglecting what i had written in its full context. Please dont do that its unbecoming of a honest person.
It doesnt matter what you wrote friend, dead folk, spiritually dead, can do nothing of spiritual worth and value until they are revived, quickened from the dead. Eph 2:1,5
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
I never said they did. I never said anything close. I never implied, insinuated, or otherwise suggest anything of the sort.It doesnt matter what you wrote friend, dead folk, spiritually dead, can do nothing of spiritual worth and value until they are revived, quickened from the dead. Eph 2:1,5
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
It would be more accurate to say.
I can't help it, if you do not understand my interpretation of the scripture.
Anyone who claims, that the scripture teaches that someone is saved before believing in Jesus Christ. Is seriously mistaken, I cannot understand why you can't see through this interpretation. It's obvious that Calvin has cooked the scripture.
I am no stranger to the method of interpretation that you are applying to the scripture.
Anyone who believes that Romans 9, is discussing sovereign election, does not understand Romans 9,10, or 11.
Hard for many to accept and impossible for others.
The Lord could not make the good news any simpler to understand.
The fact, that Paul hammers the truth home in chapter ten, the culmination of the previous nine chapters. Somehow escapes even the most intelligent theologians. They cannot see that Paul was building up to chapter ten.
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"
Well that can't be true, mailmandan.
So Adam had freewill but no one else?
There are 3,4, and 5 point Calvinist, then there are ultra-Calvinists. Which faction in Calvinism are you referring too?
I would say that God forced Jeremiah, I felt sorry for Jeremiah.
Which is one of many different interpretations that swirl throughout the Christian world. Every interpretation will cook the letter to the Romans.
I told you before that Romans 9, 10, 11, is explaining why Israel failed, why Israel was grafted out.
Romans 9,10, 11, has nothing to do with God's sovereign election.
Calvin cooked the books.
They seem to be talking about ohno assaultus. It is debated here 2000 times a day. But you are right...it is unlikely to be settled.
Between the Tanakh and Septuagint, there's not only translation errors, but also the influence of the Hellenized Greek Language in the Septuagint. In Calvin's day, he only had access to the Septuagint. Which is why when you compare his interpretation it matches the Septuagint. Funny thing is, God gave the Jews that Same Passage of Scripture originally in Hebrew. And when you compare TULIP to the Hebrew, Calvin clearly had no idea what he was claiming. I think it's funny because YOUR Doctrine is based off the Hellenized Greek Septuagint, not the literal Words of God found in the Tanakh. Your Doctrine don't even match up Biblically to the Torah. one would think Calvin was a lunatic when you compare his notes from the Septuagint and place them side by side to the True Inspired Hebrew Tanakh.
So then why did Jesus & his disciples quote the LXX 80% of the time? It was obviously perfectly acceptable to them.
Let's leave the Hebrew Roots nonsense out of this discussion. Besides, the way Brightfame is presenting this has nothing to do with Calvin. It's like he made up his own little strange soteriology which has nothing to do with anything any version of the Bible says!
You don't understand the following lines I wrote.
There are 3,4, and 5 point Calvinist, then there are Hyper Calvinists. Which faction in Calvinism are you referring too?
There are Calvinists that believe Adam had freewill and there are Calvinists, that believe Adam did not have freewill. Adam ate of the fruit because that was God's divine determination (Hyper Calvinist).
If you decide that Adam had freewill and the fall was not a determined event. Then you do not belong in the Hyper Calvinist faction.
The problem then arises, if God's will is sovereign, how could Adam choose to do anything but the will of God. How can Adam have freewill, if no one else has a freewill? If God's will is sovereign, Adam cannot have freewill.
The 3,4,5 points of Calvinism are the subgroups within Calvinism. Some folk reject different letters in TULIP.