Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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cv5 said:
That passage has no bearing on the fact of the inevitable redemption of the Nation Israel.
When will you actually provide PROOF of your assertions?
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Nowhere in scripture is the redemption of NATIONAL Israel ever mentioned; that is a modern invention born of unbelief in the living God. National implies ruled by men, and God has been against that from the beginning.

Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:4-7
 
The reality is that this spiritual Israel as many call themselves seem to despise the physical Israel which is right before our eyes.
Instead of taking Paul's example in explaining they have discriminated and speak all forms of negative thoughts towards them.
One should not champion over the other but become one in Christ.
Jesus said to preach first to the jew then the Gentiles . Not kick the jews to the curb and supersed the church as the Victor in faith.
As Paul said there is neither Greek or Jew in Christ so where does that leave the church?
As John siad in his short epistles........ it does not appear what we will be but we know that we will be like him. Speaking of Jesus.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Nowhere in scripture is the redemption of NATIONAL Israel ever mentioned; that is a modern invention born of unbelief in the living God. National implies ruled by men, and God has been against that from the beginning.

Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:4-7
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No. Wrong. And again you miss the obvious point.

Rather, the repentance and redemption of the Nation Israel has everything to do with their repenting and RECEIVING of their rightful King Messiah Jesus. And is a covenantal renewal......to service in the millennial Kingdom of their Messiah.

As opposed to the false king that they will first receive, the man of sin, the anti-Christ, the little horn, the worthless shepherd of Zech 11:15-17 and elsewhere.

Percentage Estimates​


  • Some conservative scholars and typology-based studies suggest:
    • Roughly 10–12% of the OT is explicitly focused on Israel’s eschatological/national restoration (prophecy, covenant promises, and the end-time kingdom).
    • If you include typical “redemption foreshadowing” passages, it might rise to 15–20%, but the core prophetic passages are usually counted as ~10%.
  • Calculation method:
    • OT has ~929 chapters.
    • Chapters clearly focused on national Israel redemption: ~90–100 chapters (roughly Ezekiel 36–48, Isaiah 40–66, Jeremiah 30–33, Daniel 9, Zechariah 12–14, etc.

  • The Day of Atonement is a key typological feast pointing to national atonement (Leviticus 16, 23:26–32).
  • It’s part of the overall ~10% of OT prophecy that looks forward to Israel’s corporate cleansing and restoration, culminating in end-time repentance and covenant renewal.
 
God-fearing said:
The reality is that this spiritual Israel as many call themselves seem to despise the physical Israel which is right before our eyes.
Instead of taking Paul's example in explaining they have discriminated and speak all forms of negative thoughts towards them.
One should not champion over the other but become one in Christ.
Jesus said to preach first to the jew then the Gentiles . Not kick the jews to the curb and supersed the church as the Victor in faith.
As Paul said there is neither Greek or Jew in Christ so where does that leave the church?
As John siad in his short epistles........ it does not appear what we will be but we know that we will be like him. Speaking of Jesus.
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This wrong sentiment has its roots in extreme ignorance and hardness of heart.
This can be remedied.......but only if the heart is willing!
 
Spiritual Israel means the Israel that is ruled by God and walks according to the spirit of God, rather than being ruled by men and walking according to the flesh. Not a hard concept to grasp... for the spiritual mind that is.
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Spiritual Israel means the Israel that is ruled by God and walks according to the spirit of God, rather than being ruled by men and walking according to the flesh. Not a hard concept to grasp... for the spiritual mind that is.
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Yes, but grasping it means that there are irreconcilable issues with Scofield dispensationalism and what is evident in scripture... so they would prefer to not grasp it it seems.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Spiritual Israel means the Israel that is ruled by God and walks according to the spirit of God, rather than being ruled by men and walking according to the flesh. Not a hard concept to grasp... for the spiritual mind that is.
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My continuous thesis is that AT THIS TIME, National Israel (that are not believing Messianic Jews) is NOT "walking in the Spirit".
Quite the contrary, they are presently part of this present "cosmos".

This "blindness" of course will be remedied inevitably at the future 70th week of Daniel.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

BTW, you nor any of your compatriots have EVER remotely (let alone adequately) answered or resolved the "four until statements" of which this is one. Never have, never will.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Yes, but grasping it means that there are irreconcilable issues with Scofield dispensationalism and what is evident in scripture... so they would prefer to not grasp it it seems.
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I remember when I was under the spell of dispensationalism that I'd read things like the previous verse I just posted about God being displeased with Israel wanting a king and thinking what a contrary being God was to on one hand hate that, and then on the other hand to act like he loves it.
 
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The partial blindness of the Jews that Paul refers to in Romans 11:25 means that of the total number of Jews throughout the remainder of time until the end of the age of the nations at which point the lord will return, there would always be a remnant that would believe.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled long ago, specifically ending IMO with the conversion of the Roman Cornelius in Acts 10.
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If we wanted to apply "Gap Theory" to that we would have to start the GAP at Cornelius too, because it was all Jewish before that.
The timing would be out, but if we wanted to call it a "Gentile Church" Cornelius would have to be the game changer.
I can't find that GAP in the text, so that makes me "immoral".
It's like the Emperors New Clothes story.
 
Beekeeper said:
If we wanted to apply "Gap Theory" to that we would have to start the GAP at Cornelius too, because it was all Jewish before that.
The timing would be out, but if we wanted to call it a "Gentile Church" Cornelius would have to be the game changer.
I can't find that GAP in the text, so that makes me "immoral".
It's like the Emperors New Clothes story.
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It's like all of the Jews saved before Cornelius (and afterwards) weren't restored Israel. They somehow were no longer Israel once they believed. Schizo
 
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God-fearing said:
Instead of taking Paul's example in explaining they have discriminated and speak all forms of negative thoughts towards them.
One should not champion over the other but become one in Christ.
Jesus said to preach first to the jew then the Gentiles . Not kick the jews to the curb and supersed the church as the Victor in faith.
Click to expand...

Preach WHAT to the Jews?
Who taught you to interpret it all as hatred of Jews?
Why are you so fast to run to that when spiritual wickedness is addressed?
 
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Beekeeper said:
Preach WHAT to the Jews?
Who taught you to interpret it all as hatred of Jews?
Why are you so fast to run to that when spiritual wickedness is addressed?
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It's baked into the belief system that exalts Jews above gentiles. When exalting something becomes a sacrament, not doing so becomes evil, and thus the malevolent language
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
It's like all of the Jews saved before Cornelius (and afterwards) weren't restored Israel. They somehow were no longer Israel once they believed. Schizo
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Restored Israel huh? Ridiculous.
Practically every Jewish believer was INTENTIONALLY driven AWAY from "the land" in the 44AD persecutions.

Then came 70AD and the finale in 132AD.
 
Beekeeper said:
If we wanted to apply "Gap Theory" to that we would have to start the GAP at Cornelius too, because it was all Jewish before that.
The timing would be out, but if we wanted to call it a "Gentile Church" Cornelius would have to be the game changer.
I can't find that GAP in the text, so that makes me "immoral".
It's like the Emperors New Clothes story.
Click to expand...
Nope. You've got that all wrong. The Cornelius redemption event was in fact the REVEALING of the #6 MYSTERY of the gentile Church. So noted in Acts 15 Council of Jerusalem!

The Seven Mysteries
Mystery #1: The Incarnation (God manifest in the flesh)
Mystery #2: Christ in you (The hope of glory)
Mystery #3: The Mystery of Godliness
Mystery #4: The Mystery of Iniquity
Mystery #5: The Mystery of Israel's Blindness
Mystery #6: The Mystery of the Church (Specifically, the "One Body" of Jews and Gentiles)
Mystery #7: The Mystery of the Rapture (The Change/Translation of the Saints)
Mystery #8: The Mystery of the Antichrist (or the "Mystery of the Beast"), distinguished from the primary seven that pertain to God's redemptive plan.
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The partial blindness of the Jews that Paul refers to in Romans 11:25 means that of the total number of Jews throughout the remainder of time until the end of the age of the nations at which point the lord will return, there would always be a remnant that would believe.
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Nope. Contrarily, this "UNTIL" statement relates to all of the others seamlessly and perfectly.

And all of them without exception point to a FUTURE where the time of Jacobs trouble and the little horn fulfill all of Daniel's prophecies. All of which MUST take place BEFORE the Second Coming can ever occur!

Mat 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
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