Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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True... but we must also remember that the pharisees took over the temple. Regarding the law above the law giver. Proclaiming self righteousness by blood and teaching that narrative. Even as Israel was occupied by Rome they thought it there final destination and that messiah would come to battle against the Roman authorities and set israel free from any captivity again.
Beginning at the end of Solomon kingdom Israel started being divided placing a taxing on the people's. Juda and Israel separated.
A lot more going on with the two evil kings to follow.
This is why I stress that in the gospels pay attention on who Jesus is addressing in his anger and rebuke.
Jesus said....your house shall be left desolate. Referring to the pharisees and such.
The temple became corrupt in order to control the masses. The growing popularity of Jesus threaten their control on the people.
Again we see a divided Israel in the gospels which has still to this day been a huge problem.
The pharisees weren't left desolate because they re-grouped after 70AD and formed what is now Judaism, ie, a religion centered around themselves rather than Moses. The Essenes and Sadducees were left desolate and disappeared. The temple, Jerusalem and kingdom of Israel were desolated and disappeared.
Tucker just interviewed the Mormon Ambassador to Israel.
I'm not one to listen to long interviews unless they are health related.
I listened to an hour and 45 minutes last night and the guy asked the questions that I would have asked in his shoes.
Here's a Short minute of that interview.
I'm not one to listen to long interviews unless they are health related.
I listened to an hour and 45 minutes last night and the guy asked the questions that I would have asked in his shoes.
Here's a Short minute of that interview.
The Olivet Discourse is "speaking to" the next ~2000 years - during which the prophecy unfolds. As of the moment - right now - some is past, some is present, some is future.
Please see:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html
Matthew 24:15-18, Mark 13:14-16, and Luke 21:20-21 are referring specifically to the event in 67AD that was the beginning of what ended in 70AD.
(And, all three passages are talking about the very same exact thing at the very same exact time that it happened - the same singular event.)
A reference to 167BC is made in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14 - but, it is only a reference. It is NOT a prediction of a future AoD event.
Please read the OP of this thread:
https://christianchat.com/threads/whoso-readeth-let-him-understand.192848/
Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27, and Luke 21:27 are referring specifically to the Second Coming of Christ.
The "time of Jacob's trouble" is Armageddon - not the entire end times scenario. It occurs during the 'Vial 6' time frame of the 'Wrath of God'.
Please see:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html
No - GaryA is trying his best to get folks to put aside the bad teaching they have been exposed to and realize and understand the real actual truth of what the Bible really actually says.
This is all fine-and-dandy; however, you are missing something...In Gospel of Matthew 24:15 the Greek reads:
Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως… ἑστὸς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ…
Let’s look closely at the grammar.
“When you see” — Ὅταν ἴδητε
Ὅταν
This is a contraction of ὅτε + ἄν and means
“whenever” / “when (in the future)”.
Grammatically:
ἴδητε
- It normally governs the subjunctive mood
- It refers to a future contingency, not a past event.
Key Point
- Aorist subjunctive of ὁράω (“to see”)
- 2nd person plural — “you (plural) see”
In Koine Greek, ὅταν + aorist subjunctive is a standard construction for:
Future event viewed as certain but not yet realized
It does not describe something already fulfilled.
It means:
“When you see (at some future time)…”
So grammatically, this is future-oriented.
“Standing” — ἑστὸς
- Perfect active participle of ἵστημι
- Masculine nominative singular
- Means “having been set up / standing”
The perfect participle indicates a state resulting from a completed action:
“the abomination… standing in the holy place”
It describes the condition that will exist at that future time when they see it.
No Future Indicative — But Still Future
You’re right that English uses “shall see.”
Greek does not use a future indicative here.
Instead it uses:
ὅταν + subjunctive
In Greek grammar, this construction is more precise than simply using a future tense verb. It signals:
- A definite event
- Not yet occurred
- Triggering the following instructions
This is standard Greek future contingency syntax.
The Following Command Confirms It
Verse 16 continues:
τότε οἱ ἐν τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ φευγέτωσαν…
“Then let those in Judea flee…”
- φευγέτωσαν = present imperative
- This is a command to be obeyed when that future condition occurs
The structure is:
When X happens → then do Y
This is clearly forward-looking.
Comparison with Daniel
Jesus explicitly references:
“spoken of by Daniel the prophet”
This links to Book of Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11.
In Daniel, the “abomination” is presented as a future event relative to Daniel’s time. Jesus presents it as future relative to His hearers.
Conclusion
Grammatically:
- Ὅταν = future temporal marker
- ἴδητε = aorist subjunctive (future contingency)
- The sentence structure demands a future fulfillment
So yes — the Greek construction itself requires a future event from the time Jesus spoke.
It does not grammatically allow:
- A past fulfillment
- A symbolic already-fulfilled reference
- A purely metaphorical reading
Where is your breakdown/analysis of the parenthetical phrase(s) found in Matthew and Mark?
( whoso readeth, let him understand )
( whoso readeth, let him understand )
( whoso readeth, let him understand )
You need to understand what this really means...
This was fulfilled in 67 A.D.
This is yet future. It is the time of the Two Witnesses and the Trumpet events.
This is yet future. It will occur after the time of the previous one above.
"Food for thought..."
From https://christianchat.com/threads/w...-be-in-the-future.200137/page-29#post-4603180 (discussion was focused on Matthew 24:15):
Verses 16-20 comprise the instructions that the Jew-Christians were to follow according to the recognition of what is being illustrated in verse 15.
'When ye therefore shall see...'
[then]
'follow these instructions'
(And don't waste any time doing it.)
There was a three-year seige before the Romans took the city and destroyed the temple.
The Jew-Christians followed the instructions before/as the seige began.
What did they 'see' - before/as the seige began - three years before the temple was ever touched or destroyed - that they instantly recognized as being what was illustrated in verse 15?
hint:
( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
From https://christianchat.com/threads/w...-be-in-the-future.200137/page-29#post-4603180 (discussion was focused on Matthew 24:15):
Verses 16-20 comprise the instructions that the Jew-Christians were to follow according to the recognition of what is being illustrated in verse 15.
'When ye therefore shall see...'
[then]
'follow these instructions'
(And don't waste any time doing it.)
There was a three-year seige before the Romans took the city and destroyed the temple.
The Jew-Christians followed the instructions before/as the seige began.
What did they 'see' - before/as the seige began - three years before the temple was ever touched or destroyed - that they instantly recognized as being what was illustrated in verse 15?
hint:
( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Frankly, you have failed to support your claims with anything remotely substantial or credible.I think not...
And, it isto see someone make such a statement.
Never have, never will.
Your idea of 'substantial' and 'credible' must be a lot different than mine. I consider the Word of God to be both. But, even then, it has to be reasoned from a proper framework of thought and intent. You have to actually consider it seriously with humility.
Have, and will continue to do so.
Sure is. Mine is grounded upon something more than fanciful myth and cringeworthy prattle.
We learn some wonderful things here about the ways of God, but what is important to the futurist is that there are words here that could possibly be utilized for their political message.
The context of the words? Well that is not important to futurists.
Of course Ezekiel''s prophesies here are focused on the second temple restoration, as they often are.
You know that as well as I do, but don't bother to mention it because it is not convenient to the story that you want to sell us.
I am not saying that none of this has relevance to the future.
I observe that God did not just bring these people to the promised land, He restored them to Himself, and to spiritual life.
Now that we know that there is a heavenly Jerusalem,
perhaps this spiritual restoration is the only part that still matters.
Sure I could back up the truck (again) but no need really.....
Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isa 11:11-12 has already happened starting with Judah's return to the land from Babylon and continuing with the outcasts (lost sheep) of Israel's return for centuries afterward culminating at Pentecost.
Prophesied
Prophesied
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:11-12
Fulfilled
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:8-11