Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[cv5]

Here's the Zechariah verse you quoted and the scripture plainly stating when this prophecy was fulfilled.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:31-36
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Double fulfillment for one thing. Very common in scripture.

For another thing, CONTEXT is "end times"....IN THAT DAY.
Every time the term IN THAT DAY is used, it always points to the future judgements leading to the Second Coming.

Furthermore there are HUNDREDS of prophecies of similar nature from Genesis to Deuteronomy to Revelation AND in the NT in massive
quantities that have yet to be fulfilled.

Furthermore (and crucially) Seven Feasts of Moses prophetic pattern HAS NOT yet been fulfilled.
The preterist crowd always has been wrong and always will be. Due to Biblical illiteracy.

 

[cv5]

@Lifted_by_the_word :

Zec 12:2
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

Zec 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zec 12:4
In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

Zec 12:5 (DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.

 

[cv5]

Zec 12:6 (DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

Zec 12:8 (DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Zec 12:9 (HAS NOT HAPPENED IN CONTEXT OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zec 12:10 (HAS NOT YET HAPPENED IN CONTEXT OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL)
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zec 12:11 (DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zec 12:12 (DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD)
And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

Zec 13:8 (HAS NOT YET HAPPENED IN CONTEXT OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL)
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Zec 13:9 (NATIONAL REPENTANCE HAS NOT YET HAPPENED)
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name (THE 1/3 SURVIORS OF THE GT), and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[cv5]

Hos 5:14 (70 AD JUDGEMENT)
For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Hos 5:15
I will go and return to my place, ***till*** they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

Hos 6:2
After two days (2000 YEARS) will he revive us: in the third day (ANY DAY NOW!) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[cv5]

Posts #341-344 were supposed to be continuous. Unfortunately, the upgraded (?) software is limiting my ability to create longish posts???

 

[cv5]

Good afternoon all of you preterists.......

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24 (times of the gentiles ended 1948/1967 IMO)
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[cv5]

Here's the Zechariah verse you quoted and the scripture plainly stating when this prophecy was fulfilled.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:31-36
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Just to let you know....

Every time God acts on something definite, He marks it with Aleph-Tav.


The Messiah is the One upon whom God’s redemptive actions fall.


So when Zechariah writes:

“They shall look upon אֵת whom they have pierced”​

he is not inserting a magic code —
he is marking the object of divine action.


And that object is later revealed as the Alpha and Omega
in the Book of Revelation.

What Moses actually did

Moses did not embed a “secret Jesus code.”


What he did was far greater:


He wrote in a language where the Messiah could be grammatically embedded into every act of God.


Aleph-Tav:

• stands at creation (Gen 1:1)
• stands at covenant
• stands at sacrifice
• stands at prophecy

Not because of numerology —
but because Hebrew itself points to the One from Beginning to End.

 

[cv5]

“Alpha and Omega” in the New Testament

The Greek phrase is:

τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ (to Alpha kai to Ō)
“the Alpha and the Omega”​

It appears only in one book of the Bible:

Book of Revelation​

And it appears exactly three times.


The three occurrences
1. Revelation 1:8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega… who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”​

2. Revelation 21:6

“It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.”​

3. Revelation 22:13

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”​

There are no other uses of Alpha-Omega anywhere else in the New Testament.


Not in the Gospels.
Not in Paul.
Not in Hebrews.
Only in Revelation.


Why three matters

In biblical theology:

• Three = divine witness, full testimony, legal certainty
• God establishes truth by two or three witnesses

So Revelation ends with three self-identifications of Christ as
the Aleph-Tav in Greek.


This is the same role אֵת plays in Hebrew:
the One who stands at the beginning and the end of all God’s works.


John is doing something very deliberate

John was Jewish.
He thought in Hebrew even when writing Greek.


By choosing Alpha-Omega, he is not inventing new theology —
he is translating Aleph-Tav into Greek.


He is telling the reader:

The One you saw hidden in Moses’ grammar
is now revealed by name.​

 

[cv5]

The Romans did not end Jewish national existence in 70 AD.
They ended it in 135–136 AD.


That happened in the final and most devastating Jewish revolt:

the Bar Kokhba Revolt​

The three Roman–Jewish wars

War Dates What happened First Jewish–Roman War 66–73 AD Jerusalem & the Temple destroyed (70 AD)
Kitos War 115–117 AD Jewish uprisings across the empire crushed
Bar Kokhba Revolt 132–136 AD Israel as a nation erased


What Rome did after 135–136 AD

After crushing the revolt, Emperor Hadrian did something unprecedented:

1. Judea was erased

The province of Judea was renamed:

Syria Palaestina​

A deliberate insult — “Palestine” taken from Israel’s ancient enemies, the Philistines, to wipe the name Israel off the map.

2. Jerusalem was erased

Jerusalem was destroyed and rebuilt as a Roman pagan city:

Aelia Capitolina​

Jews were forbidden to enter on pain of death.

3. The Jewish people were expelled

Hundreds of thousands were killed or enslaved.
The survivors were scattered throughout the empire.


This is when the Diaspora truly begins.


Why this date matters prophetically

This is exactly the moment when:

“Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles…”
— Luke 21:24​

From 136 AD ***until*** 1948, Israel did not exist as a nation.


That was 1,812 years.

 

[Beekeeper]

Replacement theology is not a thing, is is an accusation, a straw man used by detractors.
The actual doctrine is "successionaism" which is fulfilled theology.
There has always been one spiritual Israel, one Covenant, one Church in the OT and NT and it continues today.

Yes, if the Israel of God continues under its rightful king Jesus i do not see that anything has replaced anything.
That is why I put "replacement theology" in inverted commas on my last post.

 

[cv5]

Yes, if the Israel of God continues under its rightful king Jesus i do not see that anything has replaced anything.
That is why I put "replacement theology" in inverted commas on my last post.

The Israel of God are......all Israelites. Jewish Believers. Sons of Jacob believers.
When a Jew today becomes a believer, he likewise becomes the Israel of God.

Everybody else.......gentile believers. Paul makes the distinction clear.
And don't forget, the Bible NEVER calls an ethnic gentile a Jew, nor calls an ethnic son of Jacob a gentile. Not once.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

******************************************************************************

The Romans 9 narrative maintains this distinction of ethnic origin,

Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


********************************************************************************

Paul also makes it clear that BOTH Jew and Gentile are union-ed in Christ with equality in terms of forgiveness, salvation, privilege, gifts and standing. In other words, BOTH have equal standing in terms of redeemed sonship status.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Rom 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[cv5]

Yes, if the Israel of God continues under its rightful king Jesus i do not see that anything has replaced anything.
That is why I put "replacement theology" in inverted commas on my last post.

Here you go.....

Rom 10:19
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Rom 10:20
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

 

[Gideon300]

Here's the Zechariah verse you quoted and the scripture plainly stating when this prophecy was fulfilled.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:31-36
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Partial fulfillment only. When has Israel mournethed for Jesuseth? They were busy persecuting believers. When did Israel bitterly regret crucifying the Lord of glory? Sorryeth, I don't agreeeth.

 

[cv5]

Partial fulfillment only. When has Israel mournethed for Jesuseth? They were busy persecuting believers. When did Israel bitterly regret crucifying the Lord of glory? Sorryeth, I don't agreeeth.

These are also "partial" and "double" fulfillments prophecies:
Also they look forward to the future redemption of Israel.
Peter is confirming exactly this (redemption of Israel and their land), to take place yet future, and he is
doing so intentionally!


[Act 2:16-21 KJV]
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

*********************************************************

Here also:

[Act 3:21-23 KJV]
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things (speaks to the SECOND COMING - REDEMPTION FOR ISRAEL - CHRIST DIPOSSESSES SATAN AND RETAKES POSESSION OF WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY HIS), which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

 

[cv5]

Here's the Zechariah verse you quoted and the scripture plainly stating when this prophecy was fulfilled.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

John 19:31-36
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

BTW, this nonsense nowadays about supposed gentile preeminence simply has to stop....
The Jew is always first, one way or another. We are grafted in.

[Rom 1:16 KJV] 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[Rom 2:9-10 KJV] 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

********************************************************

[Rom 11:17 KJV] 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

************************************************************

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Thank God for Mama ! She didn’t stand for any nonsense or disrespect and was quick to “ tan the hide “ for lack of manners !

But did you have to go collect your own branch for the whoopin'?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Replacement theology is not a thing, is is an accusation, a straw man used by detractors.
The actual doctrine is "successionaism" which is fulfilled theology.
There has always been one spiritual Israel, one Covenant, one Church in the OT and NT and it continues today.

No, she's wrong. Replacement Theology, which has changed names to throw people off of the truth of the Word. It's false theology and it was taught by early church fathers.

 

[Beekeeper]

Here you go.....

Rom 10:19
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Rom 10:20
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

And Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Not sure if your intention is to show me that the inclusion of Cornelius is a replacement or not.
There was a form of national Israel in the time of that letter, and it seems that Paul sometimes refers to Israel in that context.

In any case the next chapter confirms that Cornelius was grafted into the same olive tree as Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Romans 11:17).
Also that God reserved a remnant of Paul's kinsmen to be grafted into the same olive tree.
I can only see this olive tree as being all one and the same, despite the fact that people from the other nations have been grafted into it.
So how is Paul using the word "Israel" in Romans 11:26?
I think it is a similar context to Galatians 6:16.

 

[Beekeeper]

Partial fulfillment only. When has Israel mournethed for Jesuseth? They were busy persecuting believers. When did Israel bitterly regret crucifying the Lord of glory? Sorryeth, I don't agreeeth.

Are you suggesting that Jews killed Christ?
I thought that was antisemitic.

 

[Beekeeper]

The Israel of God are......all Israelites. Jewish Believers. Sons of Jacob believers.
When a Jew today becomes a believer, he likewise becomes the Israel of God.

Everybody else.......gentile believers. Paul makes the distinction clear.

Here is the passage from verse Galatians 614.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God

Who is the circumcision in v.15?
Circumcision =Jews and uncircumcision=Gentiles.
Notice v.14 that Paul refuses to glory in his Jewishness, only in the cross of Jesus Christ.
So why not just Jesus? Why the cross?
Because the cross is the place where the whole world is crucified unto him, including all that strife about being Jew or Gentile.
Only there does Paul become a new creature, ie neither Jew nor Gentile (see also Galatians 3:28).

And don't forget, the Bible NEVER calls an ethnic gentile a Jew,

Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Uncircumcision = Gentile and Circumcision=Jew.
By Paul's definition of "Jew" in v. 29 who does it apply to?

And don't forget, the Bible NEVER calls an ethnic gentile a Jew, nor calls an ethnic son of Jacob a gentile. Not once.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil

God is the father of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
Jesus refused to call this group of Jews (and others like them) children of Abraham therefore they are not children of Jacob,
and therefore the Bible calls them Gentiles.

Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

There are natural born Jews who will never be a new creature in Christ, and therefore not be a part of the Israel of God.

You also quoted verses about the Kingdom of Christ.
There is one kingdom not two.
No man can serve two masters Mathew 6:24.