Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Beekeeper]

Self defence is not genocide. Some seem unable to comprehend that simple truth.

The ICC understands war, and they understand the difference between self defense and genocide.
There is a difference between speculations and allegations and the findings of a court.
Here is a summary of some of the findings:
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2026/country-chapters/israel-and-palestine
Note that Palestinian violations are also listed.

We could accuse all involved of being blinded by antisemitism, and if they are Jewish we could accuse them of self hate,
but it seems that as facts on the ground do not line up with the IDF claims of self defense.

UG took the line that as a genocidal war was waged under Joshua and Caleb, genocide must be ok for modern Israel.
Perhaps you could consider that idea instead?

 

[James456]

The ICC understands war, and they understand the difference between self defense and genocide.
There is a difference between speculations and allegations and the findings of a court.
Here is a summary of some of the findings:
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2026/country-chapters/israel-and-palestine
Note that Palestinian violations are also listed.

We could accuse all involved of being blinded by antisemitism, and if they are Jewish we could accuse them of self hate,
but it seems that as facts on the ground do not line up with the IDF claims of self defense.

UG took the line that as a genocidal war was waged under Joshua and Caleb, genocide must be ok for modern Israel.
Perhaps you could consider that idea instead?

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I hope its ok to respond. If you believe God allowed, or sought a genocidal war we might say under Joshua and Caleb, would you believe God is now different, he is not the same God as he was then? Would God now be signed up to the Geneva convention or the ICC code of conduct? Im making a serious point, not wishing to be antagonistic at all. After all, the Israelites invaded the lands of people who lived there under Joshua and Caleb. If, and I know this is the point of contention in this thread, God did put the Israelites back in the land and wants then there, Hamas is then fighting against God, and that never ends well. Please do not misunderstand me, of course I feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in this from a natural viewpoint, but that is not the only thing I would say that must be taken into account.
May I ask you, suppose your country was bordered by land where the government in it did not believe you should be in the land you are in. One day, militia from that land crossed over into your country, massacared 1200 men women and children, committed rape and dismembered bodies. They then returned to their own land and hid amongst the civilian population. Would you say, your country cannot retaliate, for if it did, it would be going against the Geneva convention, for innocent lives would be lost due to fighting a malitia, interwoven with the civillians? Economic sanctions could also not be applied as this would also affect innocent civillians, so basically, the malitia gets away with slaughtering 1200 of your fellow countrymen and women? They will then probably feel entitled to keep doing it. I don't know many who would view it that way, if they were directly affected.

 

[Gideon300]

The ICC understands war, and they understand the difference between self defense and genocide.
There is a difference between speculations and allegations and the findings of a court.
Here is a summary of some of the findings:
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2026/country-chapters/israel-and-palestine
Note that Palestinian violations are also listed.

We could accuse all involved of being blinded by antisemitism, and if they are Jewish we could accuse them of self hate,
but it seems that as facts on the ground do not line up with the IDF claims of self defense.

UG took the line that as a genocidal war was waged under Joshua and Caleb, genocide must be ok for modern Israel.
Perhaps you could consider that idea instead?

If Israel was committing genocide, you would have a point. The population of Gaza has increased dramatically and has one the the world's highest birthrates. If Israel is trying for genocide, they are doing a terrible job. On the other hand, Hamas' express intention is the extermination of the Jews. The vast majority of Gazans and West bank Arabs support Hamas.

I've yet to see tens of thousands of Jews marching in the world's streets calling for Israel's destruction. The ICC is a joke, as is the UN.

 

[Beekeeper]

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I hope its ok to respond. If you believe God allowed, or sought a genocidal war we might say under Joshua and Caleb, would you believe God is now different, he is not the same God as he was then? Would God now be signed up to the Geneva convention or the ICC code of conduct? Im making a serious point, not wishing to be antagonistic at all. After all, the Israelites invaded the lands of people who lived there under Joshua and Caleb. If, and I know this is the point of contention in this thread, God did put the Israelites back in the land and wants then there, Hamas is then fighting against God, and that never ends well. Please do not misunderstand me, of course I feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in this from a natural viewpoint, but that is not the only thing I would say that must be taken into account.
May I ask you, suppose your country was bordered by land where the government in it did not believe you should be in the land you are in. One day, militia from that land crossed over into your country, massacared 1200 men women and children, committed rape and dismembered bodies. They then returned to their own land and hid amongst the civilian population. Would you say, your country cannot retaliate, for if it did, it would be going against the Geneva convention, for innocent lives would be lost due to fighting a malitia, interwoven with the civillians? Economic sanctions could also not be applied as this would also affect innocent civillians, so basically, the malitia gets away with slaughtering 1200 of your fellow countrymen and women? They will then probably feel entitled to keep doing it. I don't know many who would view it that way, if they were directly affected.

Regarding the modern courts, the violation is not responding to Hamas attacks, but things that were done before and after that.

Regarding the theological question, although Joshua and Caleb were using weapons of war, they were in fact fighting for the kingdom of God because God was to dwell in the temple at Jerusalem.
This situation has changed now that Christ is risen.
God will not dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24), and Christians and Jews must now chose one kingdom or the other.
We are presented with the idea that both kingdoms are compatible, but the result is much moral and spiritual conflict.
Some think that Modern Israel has God bound by legal clauses like Jeremiah 31:35 and 36, but they have overlooked a small clause.
It must be the "Israel of God" Galatians 6:16.
God has been known to surprise people, but this one should not come as a surprise.
We have all been well warned.

 

[Beekeeper]

If Israel was committing genocide, you would have a point. The population of Gaza has increased dramatically and has one the the world's highest birthrates. If Israel is trying for genocide, they are doing a terrible job. On the other hand, Hamas' express intention is the extermination of the Jews. The vast majority of Gazans and West bank Arabs support Hamas.

I've yet to see tens of thousands of Jews marching in the world's streets calling for Israel's destruction. The ICC is a joke, as is the UN.

Very tired old talking points those.
Long been debunked by people way smarter than me.

 

[Gideon300]

Very tired old talking points those.
Long been debunked by people way smarter than me.

Definition of debunk: ignore inconvenient facts that disagree with ignorance based opinions. Then declare those who disagree to be wrong.

 

[James456]

Regarding the modern courts, the violation is not responding to Hamas attacks, but things that were done before and after that.

Regarding the theological question, although Joshua and Caleb were using weapons of war, they were in fact fighting for the kingdom of God because God was to dwell in the temple at Jerusalem.
This situation has changed now that Christ is risen.
God will not dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24), and Christians and Jews must now chose one kingdom or the other.
We are presented with the idea that both kingdoms are compatible, but the result is much moral and spiritual conflict.
Some think that Modern Israel has God bound by legal clauses like Jeremiah 31:35 and 36, but they have overlooked a small clause.
It must be the "Israel of God" Galatians 6:16.
God has been known to surprise people, but this one should not come as a surprise.
We have all been well warned.

So really, a persons view as to what is happening now in Gaza, hinges on whether they believe God has placed Israel back in the land or not.

 

[Gideon300]

So really, a persons view as to what is happening now in Gaza, hinges on whether they believe God has placed Israel back in the land or not.

It need not. Fact are facts. Hamas has a history of attacking Israel and Israel, until now, has a history of not reacting. Hamas expected much of the same, but they went too far.

No nation would endure such attacks. China has fought with Pakistan, Pakistan with India and Afghanistan also with Pakistan. There are border conflicts in many places. No one bats an eyelid. Now if Israel defends itself against unprovoked terrorism, the world goes into meltdown.

For some utterly irrational reason, the world demands a vastly different standard from Israel compared with any other nation on earth. English people accuse Israel of being colonisers. That's rich, the nation that colonised much of the world accusing Israel when it is patently untrue.

Anthony Blinken was in Israel the day after the Oct 7 atrocity warning Israel to go easy on the Gazans. I wonder if Blinken would support handing back to Mexico, California, Nevada, Utah, most of Arizona, and parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas. No one marches in the streets on behalf of Mexico demanding the end of American occupation.

What is happening in Gaza is a consequence of the hostility of Arabs to Israel going back to the days of Abraham. The world does not know this. Muslim propaganda is better organised than that of Israel's. And the majority of people are just as gullible and ill informed as the vast crowds that supported Hitler and Stalin in the 30's and 40's.

 

[James456]

It need not. Fact are facts. Hamas has a history of attacking Israel and Israel, until now, has a history of not reacting. Hamas expected much of the same, but they went too far.

No nation would endure such attacks. China has fought with Pakistan, Pakistan with India and Afghanistan also with Pakistan. There are border conflicts in many places. No one bats an eyelid. Now if Israel defends itself against unprovoked terrorism, the world goes into meltdown.

For some utterly irrational reason, the world demands a vastly different standard from Israel compared with any other nation on earth. English people accuse Israel of being colonisers. That's rich, the nation that colonised much of the world accusing Israel when it is patently untrue.

Anthony Blinken was in Israel the day after the Oct 7 atrocity warning Israel to go easy on the Gazans. I wonder if Blinken would support handing back to Mexico, California, Nevada, Utah, most of Arizona, and parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas. No one marches in the streets on behalf of Mexico demanding the end of American occupation.

What is happening in Gaza is a consequence of the hostility of Arabs to Israel going back to the days of Abraham. The world does not know this. Muslim propaganda is better organised than that of Israel's. And the majority of people are just as gullible and ill informed as the vast crowds that supported Hitler and Stalin in the 30's and 40's.

I agree there is much hypocrisy, you are correct about the English. We can also say the Indians were in the US before it got colonised by white settlers, and the Aboriginees in Australia before that got colonised too. So most can be said to be guilty in one way or another.

But concerning your general point, I would see it as evidence of what is written coming closer to fruition:

I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.[b]
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
because they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land. Joel3:2&3



On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her… Zechariah12:3



Nothing will get better, only worse I would say, until the day of the prophecies are fulfilled

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Seems like some tend to believe they can yeah but naw biblically it tells us not a single word may be removed or added to Moses words in the old covenant lest all the curses come upon that individual who does alter it . Deuteronomy30:3-6

Right . You can’t alter the old covenant it is what it is in tbe words written by Moses it’s mediator.

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭27:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:14-16, 25, 30-32‬ ‭

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. ….Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. …..The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What we’ve been saying is one covenant was broken and fulfilled as the curse it promised if it was broken . And another new covenant not according to that broken one

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods plan isn’t to ignore what he said would happen if they broke the covenant and fulfill it as a blessing anyways . But he planned to make a new covenant based on the gospel the word of Jesus Christ the mediator and messenger of the new and promised covenant.

The new covenant never promises any restoration of an earthly temple or nation it promises the children of God in Jesus Christ who are the seed of Abraham and hiers according to the promise . A new earth and new heavens that are eternal and will never fail and fade but it’s that place God had promised all along nowhere in this earth will we find it

We are but pilgrims passing through on our way home

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made,

that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24, 27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Removing of those things that are created so that those eternal promises things of faith can come forth “

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


…..Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his promise is way better than defiled land soaked with blood. It’s a new creation without sin and death where the new Jerusalem will come to a new earth ruled by righteousness and life rather than sin and death

It’s kind of hard to understand unless a person looks at the Old Testament pretty thoroughly and accepts that he was always saying to israel in tbe ot “ if you obey I’m going to bless you and make you high above all the nations and rule the earth from Jerusalem “ but if you break my covenant and don’t obey I’m going to destroy you and make the land I gave you desolate and unfruitful “ it’s a blessing if you obey and keep the covenant but a curse if you dont

 

[James456]

Right . You can’t alter the old covenant it is what it is in tbe words written by Moses it’s mediator.



Gods plan isn’t to ignore what he said would happen if they broke the covenant and fulfill it as a blessing anyways . But he planned to make a new covenant based on the gospel the word of Jesus Christ the mediator and messenger of the new and promised covenant.

Indeed:
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God Ezekiel26:24-28

Same as the new covenant:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Indeed:
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God Ezekiel26:24-28

Same as the new covenant:

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

Amen

“Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.


For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:


and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:6-9, 11-12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Same as the New Testament

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sort of what I had been saying his promises to israel were here after they broke tbier covenant

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make,shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he wasn’t saying “ I’m going to restore your desolate and defiles land on this earth restoring the old covenant that you broke. “

He was saying “ I’m going to make a new covenant NOT according to the covenant I made with Israel’s fathers from Sinai when I led them out of Egypt which cofenant they broke though I was a husband to them “

This is the old covenant written by Moses and given to the children of Israel

“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats the law of the land of Israel according to the le of Moses which is the law of thier land

thats not the new covenant the new covenant is quite contrary to the old we have to go hear what Jesus said to get that new heart and to receive his spirit and learn his judgements and laws . If we tie it back to what Moses said our heart can’t change but look at the contrary nature even as Jesus teaches israel showing them the old and then teaching then the Grace and truth of God

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( he’s quoting the law to them ) but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( now he’s taught them opposite )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ Show no pity “ take an eye for an eye blemish for blemish life for life “

V be merciful don’t take revenge but instead forgive and don’t retaliate and take eye for eye and tooth for tooth “

Another example old covenant law of marriage for Israel’s children and thier inheritance which they received with a law

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

V the new word the kingdom of God

“They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:( thier hard hearts was shaping the law ) but from the beginning it was not so.

( nt law of marriage ) And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You are free to divorce and remarry for any reason you find V you may only divorce for the cause of fornication and not marry again.

Jesus is literally saying this would be adultery

“she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”

v

Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”

It’s tricky to see but all the promises are in the nt the old is. Ot going to be remembered the old earth the old covenant the old land he has something eay better for his people no matter who’s descendants they were by the flesh but those who are of the faith of Abraham .


“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; (2 peter3) and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ( this is when Israel will be restored not isreal by the flesh but by the spirit of Christ )


And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Gideon300]

I agree there is much hypocrisy, you are correct about the English. We can also say the Indians were in the US before it got colonised by white settlers, and the Aboriginees in Australia before that got colonised too. So most can be said to be guilty in one way or another.

But concerning your general point, I would see it as evidence of what is written coming closer to fruition:

I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.[b]
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
because they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land. Joel3:2&3



On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her… Zechariah12:3



Nothing will get better, only worse I would say, until the day of the prophecies are fulfilled

Yes. God's promise to Abraham holds true today. God blesses those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. As the world increasingly turns away from God, so the nations suffer accordingly. That's because as they turn from God, they also turn against Israel. Israel is stronger than it ever has been. Meanwhile, Europe is overrun with Muslims who seek to impose Sharia law, end democracy and impose a Muslim Caliphate. America is not far behind.

 

[James456]

Amen

“Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: that he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.


For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:


and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:6-9, 11-12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Same as the New Testament

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

…. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sort of what I had been saying his promises to israel were here after they broke tbier covenant

“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make,shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he wasn’t saying “ I’m going to restore your desolate and defiles land on this earth restoring the old covenant that you broke. “

He was saying “ I’m going to make a new covenant NOT according to the covenant I made with Israel’s fathers from Sinai when I led them out of Egypt which cofenant they broke though I was a husband to them “

This is the old covenant written by Moses and given to the children of Israel

“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:23-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats the law of the land of Israel according to the le of Moses which is the law of thier land

thats not the new covenant the new covenant is quite contrary to the old we have to go hear what Jesus said to get that new heart and to receive his spirit and learn his judgements and laws . If we tie it back to what Moses said our heart can’t change but look at the contrary nature even as Jesus teaches israel showing them the old and then teaching then the Grace and truth of God

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( he’s quoting the law to them ) but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( now he’s taught them opposite )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ Show no pity “ take an eye for an eye blemish for blemish life for life “

V be merciful don’t take revenge but instead forgive and don’t retaliate and take eye for eye and tooth for tooth “

Another example old covenant law of marriage for Israel’s children and thier inheritance which they received with a law

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

V the new word the kingdom of God

“They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:( thier hard hearts was shaping the law ) but from the beginning it was not so.

( nt law of marriage ) And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You are free to divorce and remarry for any reason you find V you may only divorce for the cause of fornication and not marry again.

Jesus is literally saying this would be adultery

“she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”

v

Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”

It’s tricky to see but all the promises are in the nt the old is. Ot going to be remembered the old earth the old covenant the old land he has something eay better for his people no matter who’s descendants they were by the flesh but those who are of the faith of Abraham .


“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; (2 peter3) and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ( this is when Israel will be restored not isreal by the flesh but by the spirit of Christ )


And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not sure why you liked my post, it refers to the Israelites, not one of them, or a few of them, but them as a people. Can you tell me when the following took place in your view concerning the people of Israel:
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Not sure why you liked my post, it refers to the Israelites, not one of them, or a few of them, but them as a people. Can you tell me when the following took place in your view concerning the people of Israel:
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

God said that not everyone in israel will turn to Him, but a remnant. God considers the remnant Israel, not the ones that reject Him.

 

[James456]

God said that not everyone in israel will turn to Him, but a remnant. God considers the remnant Israel, not the ones that reject Him.

True
I should have mentioned this third specifically:

two-thirds will be struck down and perish;
yet one-third will be left in it.
9 This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’” Zechariah 13:8&9
Would you agree?

 

[HeIsHere]

True
I should have mentioned this third specifically:

two-thirds will be struck down and perish;
yet one-third will be left in it.
9 This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’” Zechariah 13:8&9
Would you agree?

Can you identify who is a j*w according to the new testament, I am a little confused.

 

[James456]

Can you identify who is a j*w according to the new testament, I am a little confused.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Romans2:28&29?
That any good?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Romans2:28&29?
That any good?

Jew-haters misuse those verses as if there's no remnant at all.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not sure why you liked my post, it refers to the Israelites, not one of them, or a few of them, but them as a people. Can you tell me when the following took place in your view concerning the people of Israel:
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

“Not sure why you liked my post, it refers to the Israelites, not one of them, or a few of them, but them as a people.”

yeah I was hoping you would grasp what Paul’s saying here about isreal but I guess not

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:


but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that’s where your hang up is . You aren’t grasping the new testsment and it’s revelations and fulfillments of the old .

You aren’t grasping this part at all either apparently

“ it refers to the Israelites, not one of them, or a few of them, but them as a people.”


“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

…. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. ( not by thier flesh and blood but his ) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


There is neither Jew nor Greek, ( flesh and blood doesn’t matter anymore it’s all corrupt ) there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16, 26-29‬ ‭

your looking for a people who’s flesh and blood somehow make them special to God …. Tbat covenant is broken your thinking the old is his law and judgement ….. it’s not though Jesus spoke his law and judgements just like Moses said he would ……

to God only Abraham’s seed Jesus Christs flesh and blood is special. Only Jesus makes someone a child of Abraham and hier of the promises of the new covenant the old won’t help anyone it never did hadnt you noticed ?

Without accepting Jesus as Lord and worshipping God in spirit and truth no one can be saved this goes for gentile or isralite. Without Christ they have absolutely no promises inheritance because they broke the covenant you are trying to re validate and re introduce .

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. ( I quoted this on the law earlier ) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When he said this

“And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws”

you aren’t understanding or relating that he was also saying this to the same peoples and had been


“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭


Ect ect I’m sure you have notice that it’s repeated throughout the ot they were waiting for Jesus the messiah to speak the new covenent to them his covenant that would come from him

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, “

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i do understand the hang up however

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If they won’t accept Jesus and the gospel and his promises then they will receive all the courses the breaking of the ot law left upon the earth ….. instead of accepting Christ and inheriting the promises to the children of Abraham in Christ the only begotten son

Not one of many but One of one who himself begats many Israel’s issue is thinking they are the hiers and rejecting Christ the hier

thats thier only issue holding on to the old and looking through the veil rather than accepting Christ and the light of life same with many gentiles problem is not accepting jesus and the nt …. The old never applied to them anyways but the eternal new does as well as israel