Rediscovering pisteuo.

[Watchman22]

Yes, that which is found in every other lexicon that describes faith as being persuaded by something and placing confidence in it.

Your in time out crftd. An apology isn't required, but would go along way.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Your in time out crftd. An apology isn't required, but would go along way.

Apology for what?

 

[studier]

My intention was to put a spotlight on the word "pisteuo ". Not so much on Tindale. Knowing Tindale or other translators doesn't hold a lot of interest to me.

I see pisteuo as" personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " Vines"

You been clear, you don't accept Vines definition and that's your right. But you won't replace your disagreement with a better definition.

Can you replace the Vines with a better definition? One or two sentences please.

If you don't give me a short, clear answer to that question, we won't be able to go into the Scriptures or continue a discussion.

But you are in actuality spotlighting Tyndale and Vine and resting your entire argument on Vine which both I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead have attempted to show you is theological insertion without explanation into a few verses of Scripture.

Both of us have also mentioned lexical definitions to you which you reject in favor of Vine's.

I have attempted to engage you with Scripture to show you how genuine believing is inextricably in union with obedience. Reading pisteuo and pistis in context in Scripture is how we come to understand all of what is included in these Greek words as God uses them - faith/obedience was just the beginning of such work. We can see from verb tenses that it's continual. We can see from other instruction that it endures and we can glean that it is responsive to and cooperative with God. There is a lot to this vital word "pistis" and cognates.

I've given you all of this to varying degrees. My first volley was to say from Scripture that genuine faith is obedience to God because that's how the word is used in Scripture. This has to include and infer believing He is God, so this mentality is also part of the meaning which the lexicons bring out.

The problem we are dealing with here is that much of theology has stopped the defining and explaining at this point of mental belief in some facts. You and I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead know this is a problem. Speaking for myself and maybe for the last time, I do not accept Vine's definition and I do not accept what you've said about Tyndale (not Tindale).

 

[Watchman22]

We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

There is also damaging fallout that comes with this mistranslation.

The most respected Bible instructors either have no idea about what I've presented in the above thread, or if they do, would be put in a state where they would have to change what they have taught for years.

The thought might have crossed their minds, that if I preach a true message of faith, I'm going to have to tell people" they must begin to personally surrender their lives to Christ and begin to live a life inspired by such surrender" before they walk through the door. That until the covenant with God is at least established, nothing Jesus teaches and promises can be theirs. How many people do you think would walk through the door?

I've only known one teacher who was brave enough to take a stand about what faith and faithing really means. And that includes scholars who don't at least say hey, this word pisteuo had problems being translated and needs to be understood. Anything written in English about Faith and faithing is tainted with the fallout of this mistranslation. Much of the things we fight about in here are linked to exactly that.

The gravity of this begs the question I've been asking myself for 38 years, is this God's doing or Satan's doing? I really don't know.

Theres an understanding out there, that God spends more time keeping those out, that He doesn't want. Compared to the theory that Jesus is a beggar on a street corner, hat in hand saying will you please accept me.

I do know that we are all accountable for the information we are exposed to, whether it's liked or not. I know that Jesus taught the world will hate His sheep. So when I see the world hating someone or that hate wells up in me, I make sure to take a second look. It could be one of God's saints.

 

[studier]

There is also damaging fallout that comes with this mistranslation.

The most respected Bible instructors either have no idea about what I've presented in the above thread, or if they do, would be put in a state where they would have to change what they have taught for years.

The thought might have crossed their minds, that if I preach a true message of faith, I'm going to have to tell people" they must begin to personally surrender their lives to Christ and begin to live a life inspired by such surrender" before they walk through the door. That until the covenant with God is at least established, nothing Jesus teaches and promises can be theirs. How many people do you think would walk through the door?

I've only known one teacher who was brave enough to take a stand about what faith and faithing really means. And that includes scholars who don't at least say hey, this word pisteuo had problems being translated and needs to be understood. Anything written in English about Faith and faithing is tainted with the fallout of this mistranslation. Much of the things we fight about in here are linked to exactly that.

The gravity of this begs the question I've been asking myself for 38 years, is this God's doing or Satan's doing? I really don't know.

Theres an understanding out there, that God spends more time keeping those out, that He doesn't want. Compared to the theory that Jesus is a beggar on a street corner, hat in hand saying will you please accept me.

I do know that we are all accountable for the information we are exposed to, whether it's liked or not. I know that Jesus taught the world will hate His sheep. So when I see the world hating someone or that hate wells up in me, I make sure to take a second look. It could be one of God's saints.

Overall very exclusivist and alarmist, implying that only you (or a tiny few) grasp the “true” meaning of faith, while all others are either ignorant, cowardly, or compromised.

Problematic at best.

 

[Watchman22]

But you are in actuality spotlighting Tyndale and Vine and resting your entire argument on Vine which both I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead have attempted to show you is theological insertion without explanation into a few verses of Scripture.

Both of us have also mentioned lexical definitions to you which you reject in favor of Vine's.

I have attempted to engage you with Scripture to show you how genuine believing is inextricably in union with obedience. Reading pisteuo and pistis in context in Scripture is how we come to understand all of what is included in these Greek words as God uses them - faith/obedience was just the beginning of such work. We can see from verb tenses that it's continual. We can see from other instruction that it endures and we can glean that it is responsive to and cooperative with God. There is a lot to this vital word "pistis" and cognates.

I've given you all of this to varying degrees. My first volley was to say from Scripture that genuine faith is obedience to God because that's how the word is used in Scripture. This has to include and infer believing He is God, so this mentality is also part of the meaning which the lexicons bring out.

The problem we are dealing with here is that much of theology has stopped the defining and explaining at this point of mental belief in some facts. You and I and @ChristRoseFromTheDead know this is a problem. Speaking for myself and maybe for the last time, I do not accept Vine's definition and I do not accept what you've said about Tyndale (not Tindale).

OK, I know you,ve stood on obedience to God's word.

Can I ask a question here?

Before we have the Spirit of Christ in us, which I've highlighted is the start of the salvation process, when the first act of pisteuo happens, God, His word, and His promises are not ours"yet". How would obedience to something that's not ours work?

How would "obedience to Gods word" be in that state, verses after we have received His Spirit, and God, His word, and His promises are ours to claim.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Overall very exclusivist and alarmist, implying that only you (or a tiny few) grasp the “true” meaning of faith, while all others are either ignorant, cowardly, or compromised.

Problematic at best.

Total cult-like behavior

 

[studier]

OK, I know you,ve stood on obedience to God's word.

Can I ask a question here?

Before we have the Spirit of Christ in us, which I've highlighted is the start of the salvation process, when the first act of pisteuo happens, God, His word, and His promises are not ours"yet". How would obedience to something that's not ours work?

How would "obedience to Gods word be in that state, verses after we have received His Spirit, and God, His word, and His promises are ours to claim.

Please go back and look at the posts re: 1John3:23a. To be clear I've asserted pisteuo is in unison with obedience - obedience is intrinsic to believing when it comes to our relationship with God.

Looking at that verse to begin with, ask yourself if you can believe in the name of God's Son Jesus Christ apart from being obedient to God.

When you look at the last part of that verse, ask yourself if you can actually love Christian siblings apart from being obedient to Jesus Christ.

It really doesn't matter if we are even aware of things like this. The fact is that God has issued and even written those commands and they exist. It will take a study of His Word to make us aware that when we believed we also obeyed.

Seemingly, because of all the mess of theology and mis-definition (which you too see) I can't tell you how many people cannot see the very simple logic of these types of Scriptures.

 

[studier]

Total cult-like behavior

As you brought out re: the primary teacher. We learn a lot of different things and ways from those we pay attention to.

 

[Watchman22]

Overall very exclusivist and alarmist, implying that only you (or a tiny few) grasp the “true” meaning of faith, while all others are either ignorant, cowardly, or compromised.

Problematic at best.

I think that's what the Jewish priests said about Jesus.

Please go back and look at the posts re: 1John3:23a. To be clear I've asserted pisteuo is in unison with obedience - obedience is intrinsic to believing when it comes to our relationship with God.

Looking at that verse to begin with, ask yourself if you can believe in the name of God's Son Jesus Christ apart from being obedient to God.

When you look at the last part of that verse, ask yourself if you can actually love Christian siblings apart from being obedient to Jesus Christ.

It really doesn't matter if we are even aware of things like this. The fact is that God has issued and even written those commands and they exist. It will take a study of His Word to make us aware that when we believed we also obeyed.

Seemingly, because of all the mess of theology and mis-definition (which you too see) I can't tell you how many people cannot see the very simple logic of these types of Scriptures.

I respect your tenacity studier, I can even meet halfway on obedience just to keep this going.

But what is a hard pass, is when someone, just like 99% of the preachers out there stand on the word believe. Theres no such thing as believing in God or His word for salvation. The word believe is a mistranslation. I've explained it in detail in the Op.

This is my stop, keep that fire going, I hope we're bothers some day.

 

[studier]

I think that's what the Jewish priests said about Jesus.


I respect your tenacity studier, I can even meet halfway on obedience just to keep this going.

But what is a hard pass, is when someone, just like 99% of the preachers out there stand on the word believe. Theres no such thing as believing in God or His word for salvation. The word believe is a mistranslation. I've explained it in detail in the Op.

This is my stop, keep that fire going, I hope we're bothers some day.

Thanks. But honestly I've come to have little respect for your tenacity or your content. You simply do not have any meaningful content you can substantiate from Scripture. All you're ultimately saying is 99% disagree with Vine. A couple of us have looked at it and also disagree with Vine. Good time for your "stop".

 

[Watchman22]

Thanks. But honestly I've come to have little respect for your tenacity or your content. You simply do not have any meaningful content you can substantiate from Scripture. All you're ultimately saying is 99% disagree with Vine. A couple of us have looked at it and also disagree with Vine. Good time for your "stop".

 

[Watchman22]

My stop is just with you.

I'd like to have further discussions with others.

 

[Watchman22]

We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

Bumped for ouch.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Bumped to bump your memory. Were you watching your teacher here when he called his listeners worthless?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:15-17​

​

 

[Watchman22]

We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

Bumped for studentoftheword.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

I think I understand what you're trying to say: That believing in Jesus is more than just making Him our Savior - He must be our Lord as well.

When I got saved even though I didn't get into studying the ancient languages and studied the Bible, mainly in the NIV, I did understand that believing in Jesus was much more than just believing Him for salvation. No one really needs to have studied the ancient languages for God to convey in His Bible what He expects of His people.

The way God taught me is that other passages in the Bible would admonish His people to obey Him and His commandments, that He gives His Holy Spirit to His people to help them remember His commandments AND enable them to carry those commandments. So when a child of God yields to the Holy Spirit, they WILL obey and fulfill Gods commandments.

The Bible says:

Luke 14:25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

So passages like this DO reflect your "pisteuo" even when English translators couldn't find a more accurate English word.

Therefore, I agree with Vines' "pisteuo" - a saved life is more than just believing in what God did for us. He gives us the Holy Spirit so He expects a changed life that actually obeys and reflects Him! It is also sacrificial because a child a God puts God ahead of their own hopes and dreams.


I used to go to a church that called Jesus their Lord and Savior, but actually just acknowledged Him as Savior in their own lives. They didn't really obey God at all and they figured God will just forgive them over and over - no real repentance!

And that really messed me up! I started questioning God why He was so hard on me - how strict He was while letting them get away with so much. God would lay it on my heart that I was His legitimate child who wants to follow Him and learn from Him and He would not be so stern with me if I wasn't.

So having "pisteuo" really does put Jesus first and is sacrificial. It's not just about what a person can get from Jesus, but giving up ourselves to yield to God and letting Him control everything of you.

 

[Watchman22]

I think I understand what you're trying to say: That believing in Jesus is more than just making Him our Savior - He must be our Lord as well.

When I got saved even though I didn't get into studying the ancient languages and studied the Bible, mainly in the NIV, I did understand that believing in Jesus was much more than just believing Him for salvation. No one really needs to have studied the ancient languages for God to convey in His Bible what He expects of His people.

The way God taught me is that other passages in the Bible would admonish His people to obey Him and His commandments, that He gives His Holy Spirit to His people to help them remember His commandments AND enable them to carry those commandments. So when a child of God yields to the Holy Spirit, they WILL obey and fulfill Gods commandments.

The Bible says:

Luke 14:25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, 30 saying, ‘This person began to build and wasn’t able to finish.’

31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

So passages like this DO reflect your "pisteuo" even when English translators couldn't find a more accurate English word.

Therefore, I agree with Vines' "pisteuo" - a saved life is more than just believing in what God did for us. He gives us the Holy Spirit so He expects a changed life that actually obeys and reflects Him! It is also sacrificial because a child a God puts God ahead of their own hopes and dreams.


I used to go to a church that called Jesus their Lord and Savior, but actually just acknowledged Him as Savior in their own lives. They didn't really obey God at all and they figured God will just forgive them over and over - no real repentance!

And that really messed me up! I started questioning God why He was so hard on me - how strict He was while letting them get away with so much. God would lay it on my heart that I was His legitimate child who wants to follow Him and learn from Him and He would not be so stern with me if I wasn't.

So having "pisteuo" really does put Jesus first and is sacrificial. It's not just about what a person can get from Jesus, but giving up ourselves to yield to God and letting Him control everything of you.

Only issue i have with your post is to make sure the use of the words "obey Hom a d His commandments" are in the right context.

We can only obey Him and His commandments by first fulfilling pisteuo, progressing in the process until we receive His spirit. Then with Jesus abiding in us with His mind, there will be moments of beingon obedient to Him. But, disclaimer, it's not us being obedient, it's Jesus's obedient nature flowing through us.

Same thing with His commandments if I keep a commandment once in a while in that same state of being , it's Him, not mere.

I hope that clarification isn't a deal breaker for you.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Only issue i have with your post is to make sure the use of the words "obey Hom a d His commandments" are in the right context.

We can only obey Him and His commandments by first fulfilling pisteuo, progressing in the process until we receive His spirit. Then with Jesus abiding in us with His mind, there will be moments of beingon obedient to Him. But, disclaimer, it's not us being obedient, it's Jesus's obedient nature flowing through us.

Same thing with His commandments if I keep a commandment once in a while in that same state of being , it's Him, not mere.

I hope that clarification isn't a deal breaker for you.

I think we're talking about the same things. I don't have a problem with it.

But you make it sound like we can only obey Him in "moments of being obedient to Him" or "once in a while". I don't agree with this. It's a lot more continuous when a child of God abides in Him continuously or all the time.

 

[Watchman22]

I think we're talking about the same things. I don't have a problem with it.

But you make it sound like we can only obey Him in "moments of being obedient to Him" or "once in a while". I don't agree with this. It's a lot more continuous when a child of God abides in Him continuously or all the time.

It's paradoxical;
Justification and sanctification see Jesus, and when obedience is seen in that temple, it's seeing Jesus.
But at the same time we are the temples who's only choice is who or what we surrender our lives to.