Rapture true or false

[ATG]

Friend, ... The Word of God, doesn't say Jesus "comes in peace" for anyone.

Nor does the Word, Jesus, say anything like,
"but after their resurrection and rapture, will be tribulation and death to the rebellious. That's " mishandling the word of God" as you say, OR as I refer to the Apostate Protestant Church, ... "being the false prophet" of Revelation 16:13 where The Word mentions the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet,

While I don't mind accusations of mishandling Scripture, which is fairly common on sites like this. However, when you then begin to upgrade the accusation to that of an apostate, don't call me 'friend'. Jesus Christ has no such friends nor brethren preaching for the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet,

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

At this point, you're either being a false accuser of the brethren, or a rebuker of a false devil. Either way, you're not talking to a friend...

 

[ewq1938]

The rapture was coined and is traditionally understood as the glorious movement of the church from earth to meet Jesus in the air.

I suppose anyone such as yourself (are the others?), can then take that word and apply it to whatever movement of a person from one place to another. (Star Trek has had many such rapturous teleportations in it's glorious TV and movie career...)

You show you have no understanding of the Greek word and it's meaning and multiple uses in the bible.

You've mentioned the rest of the dead living again to be judged.

However, the rapture applies to catching away movement of the resurrected body. But rest of the dead are resurrected to stand before the GWT. There is no such catching away movement, other than casting away the wicked into the LOF. If you want to call that a Bible 'rapture', I'm sure the wicked would call it something else...

You should know the bible well enough to know the unsaved dead are moved.

I suppose Phillip caught away from the eunuch, would be called a 'rapture' by you? Sort of a lateral rapture, rather than upward?

Of course. Again, those of us that study the bible in the Greek language already know this to be true.

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord RAPTURED Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Yes, the rapture will also include those remaining alive during the beast's trib, and are changed immortal.

Wrong. Those alive ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE involved in that rapture. The dead are not raptured because they are in heaven already.

 

[ewq1938]

False. The bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ is on earth, where their dead bodies are:

Nope. They get new bodies that Paul said was in heaven.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

 

[Mem]

Nope. They get new bodies that Paul said was in heaven.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

"...when we see Him, we will be like Him" Do you assume that Jesus resurrected back into his old body? Mary thought He was the gardener and neither did the two men on the road to Emmaus recognize Jesus at first.

 

[ewq1938]

"...when we see Him, we will be like Him" Do you assume that Jesus resurrected back into his old body?

No assuming is needed as the bible is clear he did.

 

[Mem]

No assuming is needed as the bible is clear he did.

I tend to agree as he 'rose from His grave' but why would it then be assumed that it would be different when "all who are in their graves hear His voice and come out--"?

 

[RegisterNow]

Let's rephrase the question - when the Lord descends from heaven at the sound of the trumpet, you'll be guaranteed to still be alive and remain as a card holding member of the Philadealphian church, while your fellow brothers and sisters were six feet under, true or false?

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write ... because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Rev. 3:7-10)

 

[ewq1938]

I tend to agree as he 'rose from His grave' but why would it then be assumed that it would be different when "all who are in their graves hear His voice and come out--"?

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

 

[Rob7]

While I don't mind accusations of mishandling Scripture, which is fairly common on sites like this. However, when you then begin to upgrade the accusation to that of an apostate, don't call me 'friend'. Jesus Christ has no such friends nor brethren preaching for the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet,

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

At this point, you're either being a false accuser of the brethren, or a rebuker of a false devil. Either way, you're not talking to a friend...

You've notice that I don't refer to many in here as "Brother". That's because I don't consider many of those following "dispensational" theology as actual, practical, Jesus believing Christians, fellow Children ( brethren) of God. But rather "apostate christian", "false prophets" believing the Antichrist, rather than Jesus. Promoting some variation of a dispensational theology, as there are MULTITUDES, as evident by the 44,000+ different "Christian denominations". As evident by so many Pharisaical types, HERE in these CC forums, arguing over some slight variation, eg pretrib, mid-trib, post-trib , when Jesus said "straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel" to condemn the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and scribes, while they were & we are ignoring the foundation of God's Kingdom, "LOVE", which IS Jesus and HIS Righteousness.

"Apostate Protestantism" is believing and conforming to the Counter Reformation efforts of the Roman Church, by their returning to the Mother Church, The Antichrist.

A quick internet search; John Calvin develops his argument that the Pope is the Antichrist (Institutes IV,7,25). The historical Pope that Calvin had in view was Paul III (1534-1549) but his critique never focuses on his person, but rather on the Papal institution. Referring to a student of Calvin's; John “Knox struck at the root of the popery, by boldly pronouncing the Pope to be the antichrist, and the whole system as erroneous and anti-scriptural.” ( I could go on thru ALL the Protestants Reformers of the Roman Church, quoting them, claiming the RCC and her doctrines as Antichrist, being the bases of the Reformation.)

So Friend, why are you referring to your self as a Protest Christian, when your NOT protesting the Antichrist, but are a part of this present day ecumenical movement that is "returning the the Mother Church" ... This "Great Apostasy" ...

Excerpt; "The term is derived from the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, in which the Apostle Paul informs the Christians of Thessalonica that a great apostasy must occur before the return of Christ, when "the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (chapter 2:1–12). The Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches have interpreted this chapter as referring to a future falling-away, during the reign of the Antichrist at the end of time.[9]"

Why do I refer to "apostate Christians, as friend?

Matthew 26:48
"Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And immediately he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. And Jesus said to him, Friend, why are you come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him."

"The act of calling Judas "friend" is interpreted by many as a profound expression of Jesus’ love, forgiveness, and commitment to fulfilling God’s redemptive plan, even through betrayal. Some scholars suggest this was not an expression of false intimacy but a call to conscience, challenging Judas to reflect on his actions. The statement is also viewed as a powerful example of loving one’s enemies and responding to evil with grace."

Luke 10:27 "...love the Lord your God ... and (love) your neighbor as yourself.” I sure would want someone to love me enuf to tell ME when I was going astray ( Pilgrims Progress - "The Interpreter" ) from The Path, The Way, (to) Jesus, & The Celestial City.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[Psalm1]

You've notice that I don't refer to many in here as "Brother". That's because I don't consider many of those following "dispensational" theology as actual, practical, Jesus believing Christians, fellow Children ( brethren) of God. But rather "apostate christian", "false prophets" believing the Antichrist, rather than Jesus. Promoting some variation of a dispensational theology, as there are MULTITUDES, as evident by the 44,000+ different "Christian denominations". As evident by so many Pharisaical types, HERE in these CC forums, arguing over some slight variation, eg pretrib, mid-trib, post-trib , when Jesus said "straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel" to condemn the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and scribes, while they were & we are ignoring the foundation of God's Kingdom, "LOVE", which IS Jesus and HIS Righteousness.

"Apostate Protestantism" is believing and conforming to the Counter Reformation efforts of the Roman Church, by their returning to the Mother Church, The Antichrist.

A quick internet search; John Calvin develops his argument that the Pope is the Antichrist (Institutes IV,7,25). The historical Pope that Calvin had in view was Paul III (1534-1549) but his critique never focuses on his person, but rather on the Papal institution. Referring to a student of Calvin's; John “Knox struck at the root of the popery, by boldly pronouncing the Pope to be the antichrist, and the whole system as erroneous and anti-scriptural.” ( I could go on thru ALL the Protestants Reformers of the Roman Church, quoting them, claiming the RCC and her doctrines as Antichrist, being the bases of the Reformation.)

So Friend, why are you referring to your self as a Protest Christian, when your NOT protesting the Antichrist, but are a part of this present day ecumenical movement that is "returning the the Mother Church"... This "Great Apostasy" ...

Excerpt; "The term is derived from the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, in which the Apostle Paul informs the Christians of Thessalonica that a great apostasy must occur before the return of Christ, when "the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (chapter 2:1–12). The Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches have interpreted this chapter as referring to a future falling-away, during the reign of the Antichrist at the end of time.[9]"

Why do I refer to "apostate Christians, as friend?

Matthew 26:48
"Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast. And immediately he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him. And Jesus said to him, Friend, why are you come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him."

"The act of calling Judas "friend" is interpreted by many as a profound expression of Jesus’ love, forgiveness, and commitment to fulfilling God’s redemptive plan, even through betrayal. Some scholars suggest this was not an expression of false intimacy but a call to conscience, challenging Judas to reflect on his actions. The statement is also viewed as a powerful example of loving one’s enemies and responding to evil with grace."

Luke 10:27 "...love the Lord your God ... and (love) your neighbor as yourself.” I sure would want someone to love me enuf to tell ME when I was going astray ( Pilgrims Progress - "The Interpreter" ) from The Path, The Way, (to) Jesus, & The Celestial City.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You do not understand the requirements for salvation.
There is no eschatology exam to pass to become brethren.

BTW, all end times is based and centered in the bride and groom dynamic.
Which you have no mention of in your end times theory.
(Which is full of holes)

 

[Rob7]

Let me re-post, from another thread, a short explanation, of what original Protestants, "were like", to see if we relate, to them.

The "first order of business for the Beast" in 1545, seems to have been "damage control". Due to the damage done by the Protestant Reformers, outing the Papacy for who they really are and where their allegiance lies. ... The Council of Trent, and Ignatius of Loyola establishing the Jesuit Order in 1540, to counter the Protestant Reformation, and the generation of "Futurism"

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Mem]

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

Your interpretation is inherently literal then, and Jesus had reinhabited His earthly tabernacle when He resurrected. That is, He wasn't presenting his building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens, by reasoning that His earthly tabernacle did not dissolve.

 

[ATG]

... " after their resurrection and rapture, will be tribulation and death to the rebellious." = fable, - 2 Timothy 4:2-5 (above)

A truthful interpretation of The Word, concerning the SOON, Second Advent of our Lord, Jesus, would be;

Jesus returns to judge the world.

The judgment of nations is after rapturing His saints into the air, sends tribulation upon the earth, and destroys their armies on the earth, and stands on Mt Zion King over all the earth. Then, He judges the nations remaining alive, and destroys them that do no good, and welcomes them that do good into His Millennial kingdom...

...

2. Jesus brings judgment and rewards:

• Revelation 22:12 (KJV):
  “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
  This shows that Jesus will bring rewards for both the righteous and the wicked.
• 2 Timothy 4:8 (KJV):
  “Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”
  Jesus rewards the righteous with a crown of righteousness.

Correct. The first time He comes in the flesh, He brings peace, and is greeted with wrath. The second time He comes with power and peace for the righteous, and then also great wrath for the rebellious.

3. The righteous are translated out of the wrath, plagues, and tribulation of God

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 (KJV):
  “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
• 
  The righteous are caught up (translated) to meet Jesus in the air, escaping the wrath to come.

Peace and good will to them that are at peace with Him.

• Revelation7:1–3 (KJV):
  “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
• 
  The righteous are sealed before the plagues (the wrath) begin.

Correct. The righteous are sealed with resurrection and changed immortal, and caught away into the air. Before the Lamb's wrath is poured out upon the rebels on earth.

4. The wicked are immediately judged and destroyed by the brightness of His Coming

• 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (KJV):
  “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.”
  The wicked are destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming.

The inhabiters of the earth are first plagued with great tribulation over all the earth,

Rev 8:13
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

And then the Lamb destroys with His brightness, all the gathered armies against Him around Armageddon:

Rev 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rev 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Zec 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

• Revelation 19:19–21 (KJV):
  “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet… these both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse…”
  The wicked (including the beast, false prophet, and their followers) are destroyed at Christ's return.

Correct. After the resurrection and rapture of His saints from the earth, His plagues upon the earth, and then His destruction of their armies gathered around Armageddon:

Rev 9:20
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,...

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

5. The Earth becomes void and desolate after the Second Coming

• Jeremiah 4:23 (KJV):
  “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.”
  The earth becomes desolate, echoing the pre-creation state (similar to Genesis 1:2).

This desolation of unbelief over all the earth, is at the cross of Christ's crucifixion, when all were judged unbelievers, the Jews first and also the Gentiles.

Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom{11:32}
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The earth becomes waste and desolate following the Second Coming.

The heaven and the earth become melted with fire following the Millennium of the Lord, a thousand years after His second coming.

 

[ATG]

.

• Revelation 20:1–3 (KJV):
  “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years…”
  Satan is bound on a desolate earth for the duration of the millennium.

Right. I've heard of this so-called wasted desolate Millennium earth, that the Lord and His saints 'rule' over for a thousand years. Never saw the point of governing over desolate wasteland, much less any Scripture for it.

Psa 2:6
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psa 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psa 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Psa 67:40
Let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Isa 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Desolate waste is not much of an inheritance for anyone, especially not the Lord of all the earth. Except maybe for for Satan, if he had his way on earth:

Rev 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The Lord will finally come as promised to inherit, judge, and govern all nations in righteousness and peace for a thousand years.

6. The new heaven and new earth are created after the White Throne Judgment

• Revelation 21:1–2 (KJV):
  “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
  After the destruction of the wicked and the judgment, a new heaven and new earth are created.

After fire from God destroys the last rebellion on this earth, at the end of the Lord's Millennium, with this heaven and earth burned up and passing away.

7. Satan, the Anti-Christ, and the False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire

• Revelation 20:10 (KJV):
  “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
  Satan, the beast (Anti-Christ), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

The beast and false prophet are cast alive into the LOF, when the Lamb destroys their armies around Judea. A thousand years later after Satan is loosed again for a final rebellion on earth, then the devil and hell are cast into the LOF, to join the beast and false prophet.

Rev 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea...

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The wicked are utterly destroyed in hell (the lake of fire), indicating non-existence.

I've also heard of this eternal 'oblivion' wish of the wicked. It accompanies the natural theology of people being bodies with souls, where the souls die with the bodies, 'without existence'. They also downgrade hell into only a symbolic torment, with the 'parable' of the rich man and Lazarus. Do you?

2Co 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Pe 1:13
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

People are immortal souls temporarily housed in physical bodies on earth, and will be eternally housed in either glorious resurrected bodies with the Lord for blessing, or shameful bodies without the Lord for punishment:

2Co 5:4
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Jde 1:12
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Mat 25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[ATG]

...

Summary Timeline:

1. Jesus returns as King and Judge (Rev. 19:11–16; Matt. 25:31–32)
2. The righteous are translated to heaven (1 Thess. 4:16–17)
3. The wicked are immediately destroyed (2 Thess. 2:8; Rev. 19:19–21)
4. The earth becomes desolate (Jer. 4:23; Isa. 24:1; Rev. 20:1–3)
5. Satan, Anti-Christ, and False Prophet are cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10)
6. Eternal destruction of the wicked = non-existence (Mal. 4:1; Matt. 10:28; Rev. 20:14–15)
7. The new heaven and earth are created (Rev. 21:1–2)
8. So on into eternity

Summary Timeline:

Jesus returns with power to judge His people first, and then the world.
His righteous people are resurrected and raptured into the air with Him.
The inhabiters of the earth are subject to the Lamb's tribulation and wrath.
The rebel armies around Armageddon are destroyed with His brightness.
The beast and false prophet are cast alive into the LOF.
The Lord sets His feet and throne on Mt Zion to rule for a thousand years.
Satan is bound a thousand years in hell.
The nations remaining alive are judged righteous or evil.
The righteous enter into His Millennial kingdom, and the evil are punished in hell.
The resurrected saints govern with the Lord over all nations in righteous peace and blessing.
There is a great harvest of souls among all nations unto the Lord.
Satan is loosed on earth after the thousand year Millennium expires.
The last rebellion of men on earth surrounds the camp of the saints, and is immediately destroyed by fire from God.
Satan is cast into the LOF where the beast and false prophet are.
The heaven and earth are melted with fire and flee from the Lord on His GWT.
The rest of the dead live again unto judgment of works.
There are those during the Millennium found written in the Lamb's book of life.
There are the wicked of all the earth found not written therein, and cast into the LOF.
Death and hell are cast into the LOF.
The new heaven and earth are created with the old passed away.

(Scriptures available upon request)

 

[ATG]

Rev 19. (The part you redacted)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Since you ignore the Scriptural counter-argument of the church being resurrected and changed on earth at the Lord's return, not before. As well as rapturing to meet Him in the air, not in heaven. Then you concede the argument. But rather than also receiving the Scriptural correction, some instead move on to something else.

The part you redacted:

Rev 19:2
For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

If the marriage supper of the Lamb has already been eaten in heaven, then the great whore Babylon has also already fallen before His return to earth.

Rev 19:7
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

The marriage supper of the Lamb is come, not is done.

Rev 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The saints should and shall be arrayed in white, as promised. Your prophecy says they should have been arrayed already...

Rev 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

All saints are now called to the Lamb's marriage supper, which call shall be made with the last trump and blessed first resurrection and rapture into the air, at His return...

1 Th 4:15
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Scripture that you ignore, where the Lamb descends into the air, to resurrect and call His saints to meet Him there. Also says the marriage midnight call is made with His descent, to where His betrothed await His coming on earth.

The marriage supper of the Lamb will be in the air with clouds, while the inhabiters of the earth are plagued in indignation:

Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

You have angels, in your error, riding horses.

You also ignore the Scriptural counterargument of the angels following the Lord out of heaven, are then sent to gather the resurrected saints from the four winds of the earth, to meet Him in the air.

Rev 15:6
And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Chosen angels of God are clothed in white linen with golden girdles, the same as the bodily resurrected Lord Jesus. They also ate food with the Lord when visiting Abraham. And they will also ride white horses with Lord out of heaven, the same as He does returning to shout the midnight call of marriage to His betrothed saints waiting for Him on earth.

Which is only be those that do wait, and do not slumber nor serve Him falsely, until He comes again to earth.

Mat 25:5
While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 24:48
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

All saints still await the Lord's coming again to earth. Not wait to follow Him out of heaven, when He comes again to earth...

1 Th 4:15
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout...

2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Heb 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So, are you one of those that believe you are now already resurrected into heaven, and 'reigning' with Him over the earth, in a so-called 'Spirit-only' Millennium?

 

[ATG]

Huh?
The ac kills all refusing the mark. No such thing as a postrib rapture

Already explained this enough. And you understood it, and now act like you don't. So, you just like to keep arguments going.

Plus the gathering of the Jews is midtrib in Rev 14;14.

Also already rebuked a Judaizing prophecy in the body of Christ, which you continue to ignore. So no more repeating from me.

So a gathering at the second coming is impossible.

Also already quoted Scripture of the angels gathering together the saints sent by the Lord at His second coming. Which you ignore, in order to keep pushing Judaized 'Jews-only' gathering into the body of Christ.

It can not happen

What cannot happen with me is endless arguing with no purpose. So, until something new comes up between us, see you then.

 

[ATG]

You should know the bible well enough to know the unsaved dead are moved.

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord RAPTURED Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

You can keep inserting rapture anywhere you like. I have no problem with that. It just confuses the standard Christian tradition of the rapture of the church at the Lord's return. Maybe you are the only one trying to do so. Perhaps start a new traditional use by yourself alone?

But I still seriously doubt the wicked dead cast into the LOF think they are being 'raptured' into dark black eternity...Perhaps that's where your own personal original effort to redefine rapture falls apart?

Wrong. Those alive ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE involved in that rapture. The dead are not raptured because they are in heaven already.

Their souls are in the presence of the Lord under the altar, waiting for the last dead in Christ.

2Co 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Rev 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Their dead bodies are still here on earth, waiting to be resurrected unto life and rapturously rise to meet the Lord coming in the air.

You've ignored those quoted Scriptures enough for me to move on.

 

[ATG]

Nope. They get new bodies that Paul said was in heaven. The new body is in heaven!

I've heard this one too.

2Co 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Paul says the souls in heaven are absent from their bodies, which are still dead in the ground. And so these 'new bodies' in heaven cannot be their resurrected old dead bodies:

1Th 4:13
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

They are called the dead in Christ, because their old dead bodies are asleep in the earth, not resurrected alive in heaven.

That's why those preaching other 'new bodies' in heaven, are not preaching bodily resurrection. What they say is that there are now two bodies of souls in the presence of the Lord: The first one dead in the grave, and the other 'new one' alive in heaven. And those old dead bodies in the grave perish with the dissolving of this old earth. Which of course denies the resurrection of the dead body:

1Co 15:13
But if there be no resurrection of the dead (body), then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

We see how certain Christians preached long ago, this 'new body' in heaven thing, where the old first body remained dead in the earth.

But of course, some then tried to latter amend that original heresy, by saying those new bodies are indeed their old dead bodies already resurrected. Which Paul also rebuked:

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

What I love about Scripture, is that it shows how God knows from the beginning all lies about His word to come, and therefore He has written Scripture to ensure, that all such lies ensnare themselves in contradiction to Scripture.

Job 5:13
He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[ATG]

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body

Sloppy reading is also ensnared by God's attention to detail, when writing His Scriptures of truth:

1. Here Paul uses an analogy of a house that is a building, and also a tabernacle.

Our earthly house and building of this tabernacle is manifestly not this tabernacle, but is the earthly house and building for our tabernacle, which is the physical body.

2Co 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2Pe 1:13
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

It's this tabernacle that is our physical body and earthen vessel. Not our earthly house and building made by God for our natural bodies to dwell in:

Psa 8:3
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

As with the Sabbath, so with the earth: Man is not made for the earth, but the earth is a house made for man to dwell in.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,

2. It's the earthly house that is dissolved, not this tabernacle.

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The earthly house of our earthen tabernacle, is this earth that shall be dissolved. Nowhere does any Scripture say that our physical bodies are ever dissolved, and so pass away with this heaven and earth. (Except of course for those preaching an old dead body soon to be dissolved vs another new body already in heaven...)

3.

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Rom 8:21
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

We see here again a separation between our physical body and the earth's house, where the physical creature is our body, and the whole creation is this earth and heaven. Even our physical body groans to be delivered by our own bodily resurrection, along with the earth itself groaning for a whole new creation.

2Co 5:4
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Pe 1:13
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Once again, it is this tabernacle, that is Scripturally specific to our physical body, vs the earthly house and building for our body, that is the whole heaven and earth.

And finally, only the physical body is resurrected from the dead. The earth is not resurrected but dissolved and passes away, to be replaced by a new heaven and earth, that will house God and the Lamb dwelling with man:

Heb 1:10
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.

Well, there you go. You couldn't have said better than yourself.

However, there is no 'resurrection', when there is only another new body, with an old body dissolved. Even as there is no resurrection of an old earth that is dissolved, and changed with another new earth.

And so, there is no resurrection of the old dead body, that has been dissolved into oblivion:

1Co 15:13
But if there be no resurrection of the dead (body), then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

The natural theology of old body oblivio, along with dishonorable souls having no new body to dwell in, is an example of pseudo-Christian mysticism reshaped from old pagan mythicism. Such as the spirits of the dead bodies, that find no place among the rest of the dead in Hades, but rather are doomed to inhabit the earth, having recieved no proper burial honors and rites...With the new mystical twist of all being dissolved into oblivion in the end.

Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.

It's not surprising for someone that doesn't believe in the resurrection of the dead body, to understand that it's not the soul returning to the old dead body, but rather that old dead body being resurrected into into a glorious new body, like that of the Lord Jesus, for the redeemed soul to be tabernacled in forever...

Rom 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rev 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.