Rapture true or false

[Psalm1]

As normal as it was in the days of Noah before the flood...



The only ones I know of, that change in like manner in Acts 1, are the amils, that say the Lord has already returned to rule 'in spirit'.

It's called spiritualizing away the literal truth of prophecy.

Psssst...Noah left the earth.
He returned postflood.( POSTRIB)
You deal has Noah LEAVING AFTER THE FLOOD.
....and Lot LEAVING AFTER THE JUDGEMENT.

Your deal has a Satanist in bed with a born again believer.

It gets continually worse for your position.

The bible testifies AGAINST all your points.

 

[Psalm1]

It's a gathering of the sealed people of God, which are now only in Christ Jesus. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but only redeemed saints of God.

Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

NT prophecy cannot contradict NT doctrine of Christ.

If there is Christian Jew not Greek, then there is Christian circumcision and uncircumcision. Segregating Christian Jews from Gentiles, is the schism of commanding circumcision in the body of Christ.




Jas 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1Co 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Firstfruits of both Jews and Greeks born again into the body of Christ.



No one can rightly interpret Rev 14, by changing doctrine of Christ.


The time of the nations ruled by unjust men, will end at the Lord's return. He will resurrect and rapture all His firstfruit harvest from the earth, defeat the armies of the nations, and govern all nations with His resurrected saints.

The time of nations ruling themselves without Christ, will end with Christ ruling all nations without injustice.




Romans 11 is an assurance to believing Jews being grafted in again, and a rebuke to Gentile Christians believing no Jew could believe and be grafted in again...

Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The Jews were first grafted again into the Israel of God, when Mary Magdalene believed Jesus' resurrection and confessed Him Lord. The first record of Gentiles grafted into God's Israel, was the Roman Cornelius and his house.





You believe wrong that every human on the planet receives the mark, which Jesus never says.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All that dwell upon the earth, whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life, shall worship him.

The Scripture does not say, All dwelling upon the earth are names not written in the book of life and shall worship him.

Quote
"It's a gathering of the sealed people of God, which are now only in Christ Jesus. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but only redeemed saints of God.""

Nope.
You are wrong again.
ONLY THE 144,000 ARE SEALED.
Rev 14:14 is main harvest Jews. NOT SEALED.
...but you need it changed.

Amazing how you are wrong on almost every point.

THE bible EXPLICITY states those sealed are ONLY THE 144,000.

Now... you have 2 choices to muddy that up for your doctrine!
1) overgeneralize and try to insert the church...SMH
2) Get creative or omit it.

The funny part is that gathering is way Before tge second coming.

...and you insist it isn't, because your teachers taught you "one coming"

Game
Set
Match.

Rev 14:14 nukes your doctrine.

 

[Psalm1]

It is phenomenal, when you have a false doctrine, as we see in the post tribulation rapture doctrine, the further it continues, the more side shows that must be invoked to cover its tracks.

They are forced, because of their starting place, and foundation of their "Mental idea", to defend the indefensible notion of, "one coming".

Rev 14:14 Jesus comes during the trib.
Rev 19 Jesus comes after the wrath.

Postribs say " see they are the same"

Lol

 

[Psalm1]

I posted there is no prophecy of Scripture limited to only one part of Scripture.

There is no virgin birth in Is 53 at His first coming.

My position has over 11 points/ verses

I have challenged postribbers to find a verse.
One postrib rapture verse.
So far ,none.

 

[Psalm1]

It's a gathering of the sealed people of God, which are now only in Christ Jesus. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but only redeemed saints of God.

Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

NT prophecy cannot contradict NT doctrine of Christ.

If there is Christian Jew not Greek, then there is Christian circumcision and uncircumcision. Segregating Christian Jews from Gentiles, is the schism of commanding circumcision in the body of Christ.




Jas 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1Co 16:15
I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Firstfruits of both Jews and Greeks born again into the body of Christ.



No one can rightly interpret Rev 14, by changing doctrine of Christ.


The time of the nations ruled by unjust men, will end at the Lord's return. He will resurrect and rapture all His firstfruit harvest from the earth, defeat the armies of the nations, and govern all nations with His resurrected saints.

The time of nations ruling themselves without Christ, will end with Christ ruling all nations without injustice.




Romans 11 is an assurance to believing Jews being grafted in again, and a rebuke to Gentile Christians believing no Jew could believe and be grafted in again...

Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin…Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:18
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The Jews were first grafted again into the Israel of God, when Mary Magdalene believed Jesus' resurrection and confessed Him Lord. The first record of Gentiles grafted into God's Israel, was the Roman Cornelius and his house.





You believe wrong that every human on the planet receives the mark, which Jesus never says.

Rev 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All that dwell upon the earth, whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life, shall worship him.

The Scripture does not say, All dwelling upon the earth are names not written in the book of life and shall worship him.

Ok
You are replacement theology.
No understanding of the 2 covenants.
(The 2 wives)

In Hosea, what do you do ?, since Gomer must illustrate a clone of herself?????


Psalm1 said:
"You have no understanding of "the time of the Gentiles completed",


Your overgeneralized reply;
""The time of the nations ruled by unjust men, will end at the Lord's return. He will resurrect and rapture all His firstfruit harvest from the earth, defeat the armies of the nations, and govern all nations with His resurrected saints.""

Even Paul SEPARATED the Jewish covenant people having a separate place in God to be brought in AS A GROUP in the distant future.

No wonder you struggle with the 144,000 and the Jewish gathering of rev 14:14.

You are replacement theology.

Sad.
Not biblical.

The time of nations ruling themselves without Christ, will end with Christ ruling all nations without injustice.

 

[Psalm1]

Apparently Both those false doctrines of post tribulation rapture, and replacement Theology go hand in hand.

 

[Rob7]

Lol

You really think slandering the body of Christ helps your tired cause?
Juvenile Saul alenski "destroy the messenger when you can not win the debate on substance."
Get a bible Jr and let's go toe to toe

Try Real Hard to keep it " concept vs concept."

No childish games.

I don't have to win an argument, proving that you are a "False Christian" = False Prophet of Rev. 13.
YOU prove it yourself by your professing doctrines of DISOBEDIENCE, to the Creator God.. Gal 2:20
As in your NOT keeping God's Commandments, shown by YOUR keeping the Roman Church's ( Antichrist ) sabbath, Sunday. Rev 14:12
I'm just trying to help you "neighbor" ... ( Matt 22:37) to wake up to WHOM you are serving and believing, ... rather than Jesus.


" ... having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 2 Timothy 3:5

Matthew 7:15-20
Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. / By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? / Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ...

Matthew 23:27-28
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity. / In the same way, on the outside you appear to be righteous, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.

Have a Blessed day, Neighbor, I pray ...

 

[Rob7]

It's a gathering of the sealed people of God, which are now only in Christ Jesus. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but only redeemed saints of God.

Brother ! Concerning your " arguments" @Psalm1 :

1. Matthew 7:6 – “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
   This verse suggests that when people are not receptive to the truth, continuing to offer it to them may be futile and even harmful.
   
   
   
2. Titus 3:10-11 – “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.”
   This passage advises believers not to engage in endless arguments with those who reject the truth, especially when they persist in divisiveness.

3. 2 Timothy 2:23-24 – “Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.”
Here, Paul encourages believers to avoid fruitless arguments and to focus on teaching with kindness, rather than engaging in debates that lead nowhere.

4. Proverbs 9:7-8 – “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults; whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse. Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.”
This verse suggests that those who mock or reject correction will not benefit from further attempts at rebuke, and in some cases, it’s better not to engage with them.

Matthew 10:11 "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet."

Your time might well be spent, somewhere else, with someone else, who is more open to "sanctification" by the Holy Spirit.
And not so "anti-Christ" spirited
Tis what I did as well ...
Blessings Brother

 

[memberofthebride]

QUOTE
"The Jewish Nation ceased to have Prophetic involvement when Jesus said, "Your house is left to you desolate"
True Christ Believing Christians are NOW "Spiritual Israel" , which is who the 144K of Rev 14, are ... I HOPE & PRAY to be among that number...
(I'm NOT Jewish )"

Way off.
Romans 9-11 CLEARLY prophesies the Jews grafted back in.
It is UNMISTAKABLE.

IF you are part of the 144k then you are a ethnic Jew.
What tribe are you?

I see this so often.
Your end times position, is Clearly Embraced VIA OMISSION.
IF you include Ruth, Ester, the wayward wife Gomer, and romans 9-11 all that replacement theology will be cast down.
It is 100% anti Bible.

By taking that road of error, you can not embrace the plain truth of the Jewish 144k gathering.
By the "firstfruits" designation alone , your position has TWO FIRSTFRUITS!!!!!
A 2 headed monster Created through the error of replacement theology.

The 144k CAN ONLY BE FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
Nothing else fits.
They literally can not be firstfruits of Jesus's church gathering. ( ahem...Jesus ALONE is ascribed that position)
We ARE NOT firstfruits!!! That position is gone. Jesus already took it.
Really? You have no teaching on harvest?
It Impossible to ascribe church harvest to the 144k. IT CAN NEVER FIT in a million years.
So the replacement theology student LITTERALLY HAS NO PLACE TO GO WITH THE 144K.
See where that position leads you??????
Now you have to mentally "come up" with a willy nilly hasty explaining away of a KEY COMPONENT, AND cast down Romans 9-11.

"The 144k CAN ONLY BE FIRSTFRUIT JEWS."

Do you know the first time the term Jew was use in the Bible?

I can find not one scripture saying Abraham, Issac or Jacob were Jews, they are Hebrews

When the 12 tribes were in Egypt they were called hebrews

the first time the word Jew is mentioned in the Bible, the Jews were at war with the House of Israel,

2 king 16: 6.

God divide the 12 tribes after Solomon into the House of Israel, 10 tribes and the House of Judah, 2 tribes.

"Jew" dah. slang term

the 144,000 are from the 12 Hebrew Tribes, two of which are the Jews.

 

[Psalm1]

"The 144k CAN ONLY BE FIRSTFRUIT JEWS."

Do you know the first time the term Jew was use in the Bible?

I can find not one scripture saying Abraham, Issac or Jacob were Jews, they are Hebrews

When the 12 tribes were in Egypt they were called hebrews

the first time the word Jew is mentioned in the Bible, the Jews were at war with the House of Israel,

2 king 16: 6.

God divide the 12 tribes after Solomon into the House of Israel, 10 tribes and the House of Judah, 2 tribes.

"Jew" dah. slang term

the 144,000 are from the 12 Hebrew Tribes, two of which are the Jews.

Splitting hairs.
Paul called them Jews.

 

[Psalm1]

Sorry ! I couldn't help you friend .. from walking "your way", rather than "The Way", believing Jesus.

Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph. 2:2-3

You've made your choice ... so .. Matt 10:14 "And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet."

You can't be very old.
Calling me names then acting so proud of your juvenile slander.

But since you can't win a debate honestly, you just sling accusations wildly like a little kid.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's called spiritualizing away the literal truth of prophecy.

It is all truth, sometimes it is literal, sometimes is abstract, but still fulfilled, that is the correct dividing line.

 

[biblestudent78]

A contrasting view.
The entire concept of "the Rapture" was not known for 1,800+ yrs and "suddenly" there it is. John Nelson Darby solidified and popularized the pretribulation rapture within a larger theological framework in the 19th century, making it a major part of modern "End Times" thought for a minority of his Christian followers.

Think about that for just a moment. The people the Apostles taught did not know anything about end times eschatology. For the next 1,000 yrs neither the Christian church with all their monks and scholars totally missed Darby's "discovery." Many spent their entire lives devoted totally to studying the New Testament.

Then the Reformation started, millions died for their beliefs both Roman Catholics and various forms of "Reformed Christians" later called Protestants. The entire Reform - Protestant reformation was driven by a Monk with a PHD. The entire focus on the movement was to dive into the scriptures as they were the only authentic authority for all things religious. People all over Europe and the middle east devoted themselves to lifelong bible study. Over the ensuing period, millions were reading and using the New Testament as the sacred Word of God. Many of the most famous Christian writings of all time happen in this period of bible devotion....still they found no basis for the "End Times Rapture" of John Nelson Darby's "discovery."

So, who was the only person in 1,830 years of Christian biblical scholarship to come up with or "invent" this End Times Theology? John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was a self-educated Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is the father of modern dispensationalism and futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by Darby and the Plymouth Brethren but rejected by all "mainstream" Christian churches both Catholic and Protestant. It was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible which incorporated Darbyism in total.

The Scofield Reference Bible was a popular Bible of the twentieth century. Cyrus Scofield, the Bible’s editor, was an American minister and self-taught Bible-study author and lawyer. He was an especially important voice behind the spread of dispensationalism in America, a theology that popularized ideas such as the “rapture.” Drawing on his years of study, he published his Bible in 1909 through Oxford University Press, complete with copious notes and cross references that introduced dispensational theology to millions. Scofield published a second edition in 1917, with more editions issued after his death in 1921. By the end of World War II, over two million copies had been sold, becoming known by some as the “Bible of fundamentalism,” as it had not been "discovered" by any Catholic or Protestant Church anywhere in the world.

The Late Great Planet Earth is a 1970 book by Hal Lindsey, with contributions by Carole C. Carlson. The New York Times declared it to be the bestselling nonfiction book of the 1970s. Over 28 million copies were sold. It is a treatment of dispensational premillennialism. As such, it compared end-time prophecies in the Bible with then-current events in an attempt to predict future scenarios resulting in the rapture of believers before the Great Tribulation and Second Coming of Jesus to establish his thousand-year (i.e. millennial) kingdom on Earth. Following Darby’s details, Lindsey emphasized various passages in the books of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, Lindsey originally predicted that these climactic events would occur during the 1980s, which he interpreted as one generation from the foundation of modern Israel during 1948, which is a major event according Lindsey. Lindsey followed the Darby playbook but added modern (cicra 1980) events to make Darby’s claims seem more relevant. Lindsey was married 4 times. As his predictions failed to happen, he wrote 31 additional books each updating and revising his links between widely scattered bible prophesies and real events. His prophesies had an important influence on the Ronald Reagan administration and Reagan himself who came to call Russia the evil empire as he adopted Lindsey’s terminology.

So, there it is. In 2,400 years of Christian bible scholarship by both Roman Catholics and a huge swath of Protestants, two people injected their entire fantasy based on sculptured proof texts, weird explanations and phantasmagorical imaginings. 3 people. 2 were "self taught." Lindsey had a Masters of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. Now large numbers of evangelicals live in daily fear/hope that any of Darby or Lindsey’s predictions are true. For the rest of us we watch generation by generation of the End Times fail over and over and over. However many think it must be true because "we believe it is true" even though it has been proven untrue over and over. There is always a "reason" for the false date.....after the fact. The application of numerology, "pre-tribulation events" lifted from newspaper headlines and the focus on the democratic country of Israel all play a role in this spin-the-bottle theology. It is the ultimate proof text theology. Grab a few scattered Old Testament verses mix them with carefully selected apocalyptic passages in Revelations and an entire branch of modern Christian theology is birthed.

There is a concept popular in the country community where I was raised. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity even when there are "signs" to make you try again. This is exactly why Las Vegas casinos make big $$$. There is always a "true believer" out there to fuel their wealth.

 

[biblestudent78]

There are entire websites created by modern day Rapture zealots. One of these cites a long list of "Church leaders" they claim support of the Darby version of "The Rapture." Here is the actual words of those they claim are advocates of Darbyism.

Irenaeus of Lyon (c. 130–202 AD): Taught around 180 AD in Against Heresies. - Irenaeus of Lyons did not teach a pre-tribulation rapture; instead, he taught that the church would endure the tribulation, with the resurrection of the righteous occurring after the arrival of the Antichrist. He believed that the Church would experience a future, more intense period of tribulation and would likely be alive during the reign of the Antichrist. Some have tried to claim he was a pre-tribulationist by taking his writings out of context, but the historical consensus is that his views aligned with historical premillennialism i.e. sufferings will happen before the second coming

Based on his writings, Victorinus of Poetovio taught a pre-wrath view of the rapture, not a pre-tribulation one. While his eschatology does describe the Church being removed before the final stage of divine wrath, it differs from the modern pre-tribulation doctrine in several significant ways. The claim that he taught a modern pre-tribulation rapture is inaccurate.

No, the Syrian church father Ephraem the Syrian did not teach a pre-tribulation rapture; the belief is based on a fraudulent text attributed to him, known as Pseudo-Ephraem. The "Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem" contains a passage that has been used to argue for a pre-tribulation rapture, but scholars point out that this text is not authentic and the Latin version contradicts the Syriac version, which suggests escape through death rather than a rapture.

The History of Brother Dolcino, a Latin treatise written by an anonymous notary in 1316, nine years after Dolcino's death. It was an unnamed source. As Dolcino had been dead for almost a decade there is no credible means of determining its veracity.

Increase Mather was a Puritan preacher. He taught that the saints would be "caught up into the air" before the final tribulation, which is an early formulation of the modern pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. However, it's important to note that the concept was not as fully systematized or widespread as it is today, which is largely due to later developments by figures like John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Morgan Edwards was a student at University. In his student days at Bristol Baptist Seminary in England (1742-44), Morgan Edwards wrote an essay for an eschatology class on his views of Bible prophecy. Some of his views align with some pre-tribulation theories today, however school reject most of his major points. He believes that at least 1,003.5 years will transpire between resurrections. He associates the first resurrection with the rapture in 1 Thess. 4:17, occurring at least 3.5 years before the start of the millennium (i.e., at least 3.5 years before the second coming of Christ at the start of the millennium. As Edwards became a traveling Baptist Preacher in England and America, his teaching and preaching about the subject virtually disappeared from his sermons as he aligned himself with conventional Baptist theology commonly accepted by the Baptists of America.

Cyprian did not write extensively on a pre-tribulation "rapture," and his works don't explicitly describe a pre-tribulation rapture in the modern sense. His writings on the end times focus more on persecution and the purification of the church through tribulation, a view that was common in his era and which suggested God's deliverance of the righteous at or during the end, not before the tribulation began.

Jeremiah Burroughs wrote extensively about predestination as a central tenet of Reformed theology but did not write about the rapture in the way it is understood in modern dispensationalism. His eschatology focused on the spiritual progress of the church on Earth and the Second Coming of Christ, not a separate, pre-tribulation rapture event.

William Hook was a Puritan preacher most famous for his support of and friendship with Oliver Cromwell. The only data from his "teaching" is listed on numerous sites devoted to supporting pre-tribulation rapture theology. However, they make no quotes or cite any writings to support their claim.

John Gill was a famous scholar of the New Testament and Old Testament. He could read them in their original languages. John Gill did not write about a pre-tribulation rapture in his 18th-century Exposition of the Old and New Testament. As a historicist, Gill believed that the "tribulation" was a non-literal period occurring throughout church history and that the rapture would happen after this tribulation, not before it.

John Wesley - John Wesley did not preach the pretribulation rapture, and his Explanatory Notes Upon the New Testament do not support this doctrine. The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture did not exist in Wesley's time and was not popularized until the 19th century, well after his death.

Thomas Boston - Scottish Presbyterian minister, did not preach the pretribulation rapture. This specific doctrine was developed and popularized by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren much later, in the 1830s. As a Reformed theologian, Boston's eschatology (the study of end times) would have been in line with the Covenant Theology common during that period. This system of theology does not include the concept of a pretribulation rapture. His major works, such as Human Nature in its Fourfold State, focused on Puritan themes of sin, grace, redemption, and the nature of humanity. While he wrote about the eternal state and final judgment, his writings contain no mention of a separate, pretribulation rapture.

No, Charles Wesley did not preach the pre-tribulation rapture, as this doctrine was not established in Christian theology until the 19th century, long after his time. Instead, like many other prominent biblical scholars of his era, Wesley is considered to have held to a view where the rapture occurs after the tribulation period (post-tribulationism)

John Summerfield (1825): Skeletons of Sermons - There is not one pre-tribulation rapture concept anywhere in John Summerfield's writings.

Based on his published work, Nathaniel West (1826–1906) did not teach pretribulation rapture. Instead, he was a key proponent of historic premillennialism, a view that explicitly rejects the pretribulation rapture doctrine.

In summary, all the citations provided come from an extensive effort of people with these beliefs to populate the internet search engines with numerous citations without any factual basis. It appears that the mere citation of some ancient writer on any form of speculation about the second coming of Christ are thrown to help obfuscate the fact that it was Darby and only Darby who made the current pre-tribulation rapture craze initially popular. Attempting in this day and age to incorrectly cite "lots of historical" writers who agree is exactly that. Incorrect. It is unconscionable perversion of the writings of great Christian men. They provide no missing "Proof Texts." Thus these ideas are the invention of one and only one man and later his actual followers.

 

[ewq1938]

A contrasting view.
The entire concept of "the Rapture" was not known for 1,800+ yrs and "suddenly" there it is.

That is not true. Paul used the word rapture in his writings. The event has always been in scripture. It is post-trib as opposed to other theories.

 

[biblestudent78]

That is not true. Paul used the word rapture in his writings. The event has always been in scripture. It is post-trib as opposed to other theories.

No, Paul does not use the word "Rapture" in his writings. The word "rapture," as the word does not appear in the Bible. The concept comes from the Latin word rapere (from the Greek harpazo), which means "to seize" or "snatch away," and was used in a later Latin translation of the Greek New Testament. Paul described the event in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, using the Greek word harpazo to describe believers being "caught up" in the clouds to meet the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

No, Paul does not use the word "Rapture" in his writings.

Yes, he does.

The word "rapture," as the word does not appear in the Bible. The concept comes from the Latin word rapere (from the Greek harpazo), which means "to seize" or "snatch away," and was used in a later Latin translation of the Greek New Testament. Paul described the event in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, using the Greek word harpazo to describe believers being "caught up" in the clouds to meet the Lord.

Which is a rapture. You just proved yourself wrong, with my help.

 

[Psalm1]

A contrasting view.
The entire concept of "the Rapture" was not known for 1,800+ yrs and "suddenly" there it is. John Nelson Darby solidified and popularized the pretribulation rapture within a larger theological framework in the 19th century, making it a major part of modern "End Times" thought for a minority of his Christian followers.

Think about that for just a moment. The people the Apostles taught did not know anything about end times eschatology. For the next 1,000 yrs neither the Christian church with all their monks and scholars totally missed Darby's "discovery." Many spent their entire lives devoted totally to studying the New Testament.

Then the Reformation started, millions died for their beliefs both Roman Catholics and various forms of "Reformed Christians" later called Protestants. The entire Reform - Protestant reformation was driven by a Monk with a PHD. The entire focus on the movement was to dive into the scriptures as they were the only authentic authority for all things religious. People all over Europe and the middle east devoted themselves to lifelong bible study. Over the ensuing period, millions were reading and using the New Testament as the sacred Word of God. Many of the most famous Christian writings of all time happen in this period of bible devotion....still they found no basis for the "End Times Rapture" of John Nelson Darby's "discovery."

So, who was the only person in 1,830 years of Christian biblical scholarship to come up with or "invent" this End Times Theology? John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was a self-educated Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is the father of modern dispensationalism and futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by Darby and the Plymouth Brethren but rejected by all "mainstream" Christian churches both Catholic and Protestant. It was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible which incorporated Darbyism in total.

The Scofield Reference Bible was a popular Bible of the twentieth century. Cyrus Scofield, the Bible’s editor, was an American minister and self-taught Bible-study author and lawyer. He was an especially important voice behind the spread of dispensationalism in America, a theology that popularized ideas such as the “rapture.” Drawing on his years of study, he published his Bible in 1909 through Oxford University Press, complete with copious notes and cross references that introduced dispensational theology to millions. Scofield published a second edition in 1917, with more editions issued after his death in 1921. By the end of World War II, over two million copies had been sold, becoming known by some as the “Bible of fundamentalism,” as it had not been "discovered" by any Catholic or Protestant Church anywhere in the world.

The Late Great Planet Earth is a 1970 book by Hal Lindsey, with contributions by Carole C. Carlson. The New York Times declared it to be the bestselling nonfiction book of the 1970s. Over 28 million copies were sold. It is a treatment of dispensational premillennialism. As such, it compared end-time prophecies in the Bible with then-current events in an attempt to predict future scenarios resulting in the rapture of believers before the Great Tribulation and Second Coming of Jesus to establish his thousand-year (i.e. millennial) kingdom on Earth. Following Darby’s details, Lindsey emphasized various passages in the books of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation, Lindsey originally predicted that these climactic events would occur during the 1980s, which he interpreted as one generation from the foundation of modern Israel during 1948, which is a major event according Lindsey. Lindsey followed the Darby playbook but added modern (cicra 1980) events to make Darby’s claims seem more relevant. Lindsey was married 4 times. As his predictions failed to happen, he wrote 31 additional books each updating and revising his links between widely scattered bible prophesies and real events. His prophesies had an important influence on the Ronald Reagan administration and Reagan himself who came to call Russia the evil empire as he adopted Lindsey’s terminology.

So, there it is. In 2,400 years of Christian bible scholarship by both Roman Catholics and a huge swath of Protestants, two people injected their entire fantasy based on sculptured proof texts, weird explanations and phantasmagorical imaginings. 3 people. 2 were "self taught." Lindsey had a Masters of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. Now large numbers of evangelicals live in daily fear/hope that any of Darby or Lindsey’s predictions are true. For the rest of us we watch generation by generation of the End Times fail over and over and over. However many think it must be true because "we believe it is true" even though it has been proven untrue over and over. There is always a "reason" for the false date.....after the fact. The application of numerology, "pre-tribulation events" lifted from newspaper headlines and the focus on the democratic country of Israel all play a role in this spin-the-bottle theology. It is the ultimate proof text theology. Grab a few scattered Old Testament verses mix them with carefully selected apocalyptic passages in Revelations and an entire branch of modern Christian theology is birthed.

There is a concept popular in the country community where I was raised. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity even when there are "signs" to make you try again. This is exactly why Las Vegas casinos make big $$$. There is always a "true believer" out there to fuel their wealth.

There are others besides you with no verses trying to mentally pigeon hole end times.
You are not alone in your extra biblical think tank.

 

[ATG]

Lol
During the 7 yr gt;
Rev 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

This is at the beginning of Lord's return, when He harvests/raptures the saints from the earth.

His great tribulation and wrath upon them left on earth follows:

Rev 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

You often appear confused in what you're saying. You claim to teach pre-trib rapture, and now seem to teach mid-trip rapture.

 

[ATG]

Nope.
In Acts 1 " like manner"
Postribs get schooled on a no brainer.
Jesus solo, in the sky, ascending upwards.
Vivid pretrib rapture depiction.

Are you saying Jesus' ascension was the rapture of the church? Or, that His ascension is the example of how His church will be raptured at His return?

If the latter, I completely agree.

Postribs trying to defend the lie of only one coming need about 5 additives.
Or they go into overgeneralizations with egg on their face trying to keep up with us.

Postribbers on acts one, "see that is exactly like Rev 19!"

What a hoot.
What must they add to acts 1 "return in like manner?"
Horses
Jesus on a horse.
Jesus with a robe dipped in blood.
Jesus in vengeance.
Millions of saints on horses blackening the sky.
Earth practically destroyed.
All the plagues finished.
The 144,000 finished.
The Jewish harvest of rev 14 finished.

....basically NOTHING of acts 1.

Postribbers listening to false teachers big time.

I've noticed you seem confused at times. Now, I can't even tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. You say 'nope', but I'm not sure nope to what. Try not to talk in personal code. If you have a lot to say, then just take it one point at a time to be clear for the average reader...