Predestination is misunderstood...

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Stan_the_Man said:
I'm going by the bible while you are denying the bible.






God's Word teaches we are all responsible for our own sin, NOT the sin Adam committed.

God did not make us all sinners when we were born because He's not the devil.






We are all responsible for our own sin, NOT the sin Adam committed.
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your wasting your time with these people who believe in combining total depravity with grace. but I would advice you to not let it bother you,.there obviously hardened Calvinists.

I'm shocked by there beliefs to be honest.

The best thing you can do is leave them to it I think.
 
Evmur said:
we go by the bible

As by one man sin came into the world and death through sin so sin passed upon all men for that all have sinned.

You will die for your own sin not for Adam's. I trust God has had mercy upon you and you are saved.
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you must be a Calvinist to I take it
 
FollowerofShiloh said:
When we look at the "Age of Accountability" factor, Jesus is clear we need to believe who He is to be saved.
At what Age can someone know who Jesus is before understanding to believe in him?
It's not at birth or possibly until age 4 or 5 and for some older.
So I believe children are not in danger until they are old enough to know they need to believe in Jesus.
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I am not of the Reformed Doctrine and only go by the Bible!
 
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FollowerofShiloh said:
Only for Parables.

When does God speak Parables after His Ascension?

NEVER.
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the parables were given for the greater judgement of those who are not given eyes to see.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'HEARING YOU WILL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND SEEING YOU WILL SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE;
Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEARTS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE GROWN DULL. THEIR EARS ARE HARD OF HEARING, AND THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED, LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, LEST THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS AND TURN, SO THAT I SHOULD HEAL THEM.'
 
sawdust said:
Scripture also confirms that when God speaks there are those who hear and listen and even though they are not in a position to do anything about their bondage to sin, it does not mean they are not willing to live for God. Romans 7 makes it very clear that Paul understood the position of man was torn in two when awakened to God (the Romans 1 type who did not reject God's existence and continued to learn from the Father as per John 6:45) and eventually recognises he must cry out to God for salvation if he is to know peace.
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Paul wrote Romans 7 when he was a Christian and proves the struggle that all true Christians have with the flesh.

The only people to cry out to God are those who are brought to wits end. Read Psalm 107.
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
none of this says children are born slaves to satan,

Would you like me to show you where children are born to a promise,

Or do you know which scripture it is.
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If children were not born slaves to sin then God would be unjust in killing any of them as He did in the Flood and still does so today.
 
sawdust said:
My view is that God is responsible for our salvation.

Your inability to comprehend that man can use his will freely once God has supplied the grace needed for that to happen and enables him to see the truth and uses His power to ensure the sin nature does not control his thinking while the truth is presented to him, is why you think I have it wrong.

Why can man choose God freely if he is given the needed grace? Because that is what he was designed for so there is no more boasting in that choice any more than there is in a bird's ability to fly. God gave us brains to think with, ears to hear with and volition to make choices between good and evil. He expects us to use them which is why he tells us to do the believing.
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To say that man has free will to choose God is to deny that man is spiritually dead towards God (Gen 2:17) and only evil continually (Gen 6:5).

Please tell me what dead people can do?
 
HeIsHere said:
I thought God did not love His enemies? :unsure:

How can they be commanded to do something they never experienced?
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God indeed loves His enemies that He sent His Son to die for.

It is the command that makes people know that they can not obey it.
 
Genez said:
He chose them to believe? Then, could he do that with anyone?
​
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to ​
be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4​

What happened? Where did your God's sovereignty concept go to with that passage?


Actually, he chose us to be the Bride of Christ. Moses was not chosen before the foundations
of the earth to be a part of the Church.

Her chose us and predestined us as to when we should be alive on earth when we believed.
He sovereignly chose us out from all those whom He always knew would believe.

Only those chosen in Christ God predetermined would be in the body of Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-4​
​
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly ​
realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of ​
the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.​

He chose is "in Him" to be like Eve's body was "in Adam." We are the Bride of Christ!

grace and peace .............
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God indeed wants all types of men to be saved and has chosen some from all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues including some of which are kings and those in authority for whom prayer is to be made.

1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

but if God desires every single person to be saved why did Christ rejoice at some being blinded to the truth and even said it was good that this was done?

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
 
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maxamir said:
the parables were given for the greater judgement of those who are not given eyes to see.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'HEARING YOU WILL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND SEEING YOU WILL SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE;
Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEARTS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE GROWN DULL. THEIR EARS ARE HARD OF HEARING, AND THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED, LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, LEST THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS AND TURN, SO THAT I SHOULD HEAL THEM.'
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8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
 
Thunderrr-mental said:
I'm ok in my field. I have peace.

I'm not in disagreement With his word.

Your mixing total depravity with grace. A deadly cocktail, that nobody can accept.

Which is hard for me to accept, but never the less I have become tolerant of it.

The only place total depravity from God being shown is to evil and satan, why because the truth is not in evil or satan.

However God chose to save us,.which is more than an indication we where worth saving, because of a very few good reasons, ive already mentioned, but more. We still must have something in us worth saving.

But your combining total depravity with Grace.

Which is like saying children are born evil.

There not, there born in a fallen state. That need a saviour.

God doesn't save evil or satan because that is what is totally depraved.

Your saying God saves evil with grace.
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Man naturally is dead to God
 
Stan_the_Man said:
God's Word teaches we are all responsible for our own sin, NOT the sin Adam committed.

God did not make us all sinners when we were born because He's not the devil.
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I noticed you ignored my argument and gave no answer as to how one man's righteousness can account for many but one man's sin can't?

You're right, God did not make us sinners, Adam did. The "law of sin" (sin nature) is in the body, (Rom.7:7:23) not the soul which, is what God creates. We get our bodies from our parents (Jn.3:6). If we were born totally depraved, as the Calvinist defends, no-one could be saved for our souls would be in a perpetual state of rejecting God. Even the verse they like to quote shows this is true if they read on a little.

Rom.3:10-12
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”

We can become totally depraved if we reject God's drawing, but we are not born that way. We are however born after the "image and likeness" of Adam (Gen.5:3) which is why our flesh is corrupt. This corruption leads God to impute Adam's sin to us which is why we are born spiritually dead for righteousness can not dwell with unrighteousness. How do we know all men are sinners? Because all men die, including babies, who have committed no personal sin of their own. Hence:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
 
Stan_the_Man said:
We are all responsible for our own sin, NOT the sin Adam committed.
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Actually Christ was the One made responsible for our sin and not only ours (believers) but for the whole world. Our responsibility now is to confess it (1Jn.1;9) for there is nothing we can do but that. It is Christ who lives in me and it is by the ministry of His grace that I overcome sin, the world and the devil.
 
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brightfame52 said:
We will see in that Great Day who was serving God and who wasnt
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you know I've been coming here supporting many people over the last year believing you where all having issues with understanding. Even you

And I put all the arguments down to that, but i never knew until last week anything about tulip or just how badly this site is infected with it.
But it now seems total depravity s combined with grace and partial depravity combined with grace every where in this forum

Is in allost every thread now

I'm disgusted by this doctrine of combining total depravity with grace

The.only true meaning of totally depraved is evil and satan

So in effect what you promoting is evil is being saved by Grace, but not just that grace is being defined as an unmerited favor. So in effect an unmerited favor is saving evil

your doctrine is has infected this whole place.

And has infected the whole site by the looks of It and everyone here.

In some way or another, everyone is arguing over grace as a result.
 
maxamir said:
Paul wrote Romans 7 when he was a Christian and proves the struggle that all true Christians have with the flesh.

The only people to cry out to God are those who are brought to wits end. Read Psalm 107.
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He is crying out for salvation from death, not from life's struggles. Paul is revealing the state of man without salvation from death but having been awakened to God consciousness.

Christians don't have a struggle with the flesh because they are in Christ and He has overcome. The fact we struggle with sin experientially is because we need to grow in the knowledge of Christ by means of His grace. As we do that, we struggle less.

If a Christian who has walked with the Lord a long time is still struggling with sin? They need to rethink how they are walking. This is not to say we won't sin, but we should not be constantly struggling with it, the struggle should lessen as we grow.
 
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