Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?

[faithlife]

faithlife, did you notice how my posts are filled with scripture, that clearly demonstrates, why that pretribulation is a hoax by Darby, and a second coming of Christ coincides, with the meeting of saints?

While your response is well.....feelings.....and quoting Paul Crouch.

Once again...Kirk Cameron response. "I seen Left Behind, I know the pretribulation rapture is true".

It's absolutely silly discussing this matter with Darbities. Feelings and Paul Crouch is a pretty hard wall to over come. Que Sera Sera


2 Peter 3:10

The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [a]burned up.


After the judgements of earth, the Lord will return like a thief in the night, it will literally unwind the heavens, and the human works on earth will be no more. There is no secret, beam me up Scotty for the Western Church, because they watch TBN. When the Lord returns everyone alive will know, and the dead and Christ will rise first.

By saying, there is a secret rapture, you are literally implying, that the dead in Christ who died in the tribulation, are raised second, possibly third. How many resurrections of the saints do Darbities believe in? (Rhetorical quetsion). It just doesn't add up, do the math. O.k., whatever. Pretribulation rapture is a Christian fairy tale.

So, at this point......

First, I wish I could unsee your cartoon. Also, I may or may not respond if someone tries to put meaning to a post I made, out of their own way of thinking, ie 'secret rapture'. My response isn't simply feelings but conclusions from scripture and my take of the Father God who is love, perfection, justness et al. It sounds like you're putting down Paul Crouch...why...bc he said God told him we should just 'Be Ready'? I think that's a perfect answer that actually covers all trib positions.

 

[kinda]

Absolutely the way to go - no doubt about it - been linux-all-the-way for many years now - windows not allowed in my house...

(I still have to deal with it at work; however, it only runs in a virtual environment on a linux machine when I decide to start it up.)


Indeed. And, this is one of the many reasons there is a massive "shift" right now of people dumping windows and going the linux route - governments, corporations, and individuals - linux is growing by leaps and bounds right now while the number of people using windows diminishes...

(Microsoft has been doing things lately and forcing it upon windows users - and, many of them hate it.)


Linux has come a long way - more support than ever - not perfect, but growing fast...


Of course, they do.


I stopped "buying" the pretrib rapture (I was raised with it) decades ago when I discovered it was not biblical.

I think when my Windows 10 machine goes out of date, I can convert that to a Linux Box, and maybe try that virtual environoment.. maybe.. I think my Windows PC might have 2, maybe three years before, it just doesn't work anymore... My PC keeps trying to trick me in converting to Windows 11, but I refuse....lol

Especially after Covid, who would trust Bill Gates??!!?? Good grief, that guy was the poster child of Covid, him and Fauci. Microsoft has just become to aggressive. Their software is no longer nuetral, it's an A.I. Box, that tries to control your PC. I have to fight to use my free Office Software, because Microsoft is bent on Microsoft Only and ignores, or fights other software.. I haven't dealt with it recently, but remember is just a hassle.

A few years after getting serous with my faith, I started hearing the pretribulation rapture business, and it never made sense when I heard it. I asked some leaders in Bible Study to show me, they had nothing. I remember I asked one of the leaders, and his girlfriend literally said, I used to not believe, buy he convinced me. He showed me nothing to confirm. So, I went to see the pastor of the church, he had nothing, so the pastor ended it with a dig on the Bible I was using, and saying, it will pan out.

I will post a Professor Dave video about how airplanes can't work on a flat earth, and you will respond to it's criticism, or at least say, you don't know how to respond. I'm disappointed in you for believing flat earth, but I will say, sometimes you crazies have a valid point in discrediting the mainstream view, but that's all I got for this thread....

 

[GaryA]

How are you preparing for the great tribulation? Are you building up your faith to endure in Christ to the very end (whether death or the Lord's return)? That is the most important thing to Him.

"The best I know how..."

In my view, we are in the 'trib' now - and, the worst is yet to come...

 

[Edward429451]

Only pride and arrogance believes that post-trib folks are not looking for Him to appear...

Hebrews 9:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

- the second time.

There is no 'third' time.

It sounds like you're having trouble understanding the KJV there. Let's read the same verse out of the NLT Translation which may shed some light on it for you.

Hebrews 9:28
28 so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him..../NLT

2nd trip, not to deal with sins so no Judgment this trip. There must be a 3rd trip to deal with sin. I didnt say it, the scriptures do! Wow so I wonder what the Lord will be doing here on His 2nd trip?

A pretrib rapture that's what. He comes for His bride.

 

[GaryA]

------------------------------------------------
Please explain the Sheep/Goat judgement

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne

Gee whiz--another coming

Not another coming - it is the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[kinda]

I literally can't see a way to prepare for the Tribulation, except trust Jesus. The biggest concerns are gonna be food and water. Move out to the country maybe. There will also be extreme sunburn from the sun going hot, but at a different stage the sun goes dark. Woe is the pregnant during this time. I can see cannibalism coming.. Terrible. When you haven't eaten in a week, or two... Things can get crazy fast.

I'm having a hard time figuring it out. So, if you move to the country now, you will have to figure out to survive living in the country. My best guess is most just aren't gonna make it, and the select few will have supernatural help, or just lucky. Do I know we are living in the end times? It's possible, but I'm still on the fence on this point.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

"The best I know how..."

In my view, we are in the 'trib' now - and, the worst is yet to come...

I agree. The love of most growing cold and no longer clinging to sound doctrine to me is the falling away already under way. It's already saddening some people to voice it on the forums.

So the revealing of the antichrist might only be several years away, after the EU elections in 2029. When do you think the antichrist will be revealed? I actually think of it in a positive way - it begins the countdown to the Lord's return!

 

[GaryA]

YOU think you're going to be raptured before that and think all the post-trib believers will be left behind.

This is erroneous thinking on the part of those who wish to "shame" others for not believing exactly as they do.

At the time of the rapture, all saints will be "caught up" regardless of their eschatalogical view.

Otherwise, it begs the question as to whether or not some who have passed on before that time will be left in their graves simply because they did not have their eschatalogy "spot on"...???

 

[Edward429451]

"The best I know how..."

In my view, we are in the 'trib' now - and, the worst is yet to come...

It's very easy to not surrender everything to the Lord.

The best that I know how. Until one day the Lord asked me can He have that? (Control of my life). I said yes. Now, it's the best He knows how!!

I dont have a very good track record in my eyes so it's better that He runs things!.

I was doing one of my last side jobs before retiring for real and I had to fix a man's furnace. I didnt have the part so I had to go get it. On the way back to the customers house I was wondering how much I should charge him. I wanted to give the man a real good deal for the Lord, but I couldn't settle on a price, so I prayed about it, Lord how much should I charge this man?

He answered me at once, He said dont charge Him anything. I hee-hawed about it because I wanted to give him a rocking deal plus put a few dollars in my pocket to at least cover the gas. And the Lord says real clear, Didn't you give your life to Me? And I said, Yes Lord. So He said, then it belongs to Me and it's not your business anymore......

(DOH!) He was right and put things in perspective for me!

 

[kinda]

First, I wish I could unsee your cartoon. Also, I may or may not respond if someone tries to put meaning to a post I made, out of their own way of thinking, ie 'secret rapture'. My response isn't simply feelings but conclusions from scripture and my take of the Father God who is love, perfection, justness et al. It sounds like you're putting down Paul Crouch...why...bc he said God told him we should just 'Be Ready'? I think that's a perfect answer that actually covers all trib positions.

Well, the dead horse was a great illustration on how post trippers see pre trippers. Don't respond if you like in this thread, it will only brings more frustration. We obviously completely different. Maybe we can see eye to eye in another thread. A secret rapture is literally what pretribulation rapture is, it's a secret. No Bible verse to see this. Once again, you failed to post any scripture, but definitely think it's based on years of false teaching by evangelical churches who promote Darby ideas.

I strongly doubt you came to this conclusion on your own, really do. It's not a natural conclusion making the Lord return two times. It literally goes against so many scriptures. I have tried to show this thread how that is so, in my posts. See page 9, where I break it down nicely....Using scripture even.

I'm not putting Paul Crouch down, I putting the idea of using Paul Crouch's quotes, instead of scripture down. Not sure how you missed that point. Actually used to drive TBN headquarters all the time. And appreciate the many of their programs, but let's no carried away here.

 

[GaryA]

I'll agreeably disagree to agree with your premise and I can't acknowledge that I understand what you're attempting to explain. Now I ask of you if YOU, lol, will acknowledge what I'm asking in the above post that the last 3-1/2 yrs of the trib are called 'the Great Trib' bc the 'WRATH OF GOD' will be poured down on earth. So how can the righteous be here if your Biblical quote says 'no righteous will experience the WRATH OF GOD'? (and yes I do realize the believers who converted and still alive will be here)


the wrath of God intensifies significantly and is poured out heavily during the last half of the seven-year tribulation, often called "The Great Tribulation". While the first 3 1/2 years involve persecution by the Antichrist, the final 3 1/2 years are characterized by the seven bowls of God's wrath. The Great Tribulation (Last 3.5 Years): This period is defined by intense, direct divine judgments against the kingdom of the Antichrist and rebellious humanity.

It ever-continually seems that all pre-trib folks know how it do is "play their tape"...

 

[GaryA]

Why would you say that?

Perhaps, I left something out that I was thinking but did not write into the post. I said what I said on the basis of referring to "the whole" of different major groups of people in different places in history. I know that there are martyrs today that die because they are true to their faith. I was saying that the martyrs of the Dark Ages as a whole were the strongest in their faith.

 

[Edward429451]

This is erroneous thinking on the part of those who wish to "shame" others for not believing exactly as they do.

At the time of the rapture, all saints will be "caught up" regardless of their eschatalogical view.

Otherwise, it begs the question as to whether or not some who have passed on before that time will be left in their graves simply because they did not have their eschatalogy "spot on"...???

Nope. A person's eschatology has zero to do with are they rapture ready. When Jesus shows up He wont care about what doctrine you hold to, how many verses you've memorized or anything like that. Do you know Him? Personally?

John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth..../KJV

Do you think that this is a suggestion or a command? I think it's clear.

You must be in contact with the Lord spiritually, spirit to Spirit.

Can you hear God's still small voice within you? It doesnt take long to learn how He talks so it's easy to know, hey that wasnt me! Lord is that you?!

Doesnt scripture say we should be led by the Spirit? It's simple but hard to learn. If you can't hear God's still small voice, I would be looking at my relationship with the Lord and taking steps tp reconcile and be sure to be rapture ready.

 

[Edward429451]

It ever-continually seems that all pre-trib folks know how it do is "play their tape"...

So in otheer words, you cant answer his question.

 

[Inquisitor]

I agree. The love of most growing cold and no longer clinging to sound doctrine to me is the falling away already under way. It's already saddening some people to voice it on the forums.

So the revealing of the antichrist might only be several years away, after the EU elections in 2029. When do you think the antichrist will be revealed? I actually think of it in a positive way - it begins the countdown to the Lord's return!

Scripture only (2 Thessalonians 2:1–9).
1) Is the return of Christ imminent?

“That you not be quickly shaken in mind or troubled… as though the day of the Lord has come.” (2 Thess 2:2)​

“Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.” (2 Thess 2:3)​

Answer (from the text):
The return is not presented as imminent in the sense of having no preceding events. Paul states conditions that must occur first.
2) When is the man of lawlessness revealed—at Christ’s return or just before?

“The man of lawlessness is revealed” (2 Thess 2:3)​

“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.” (2 Thess 2:8)​

Answer (from the text):
The man of lawlessness is revealed before the return of Christ and is destroyed at Christ’s appearing.
3) What restrains the man of lawlessness?

“And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.” (2 Thess 2:6)​

“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.” (2 Thess 2:7)​

Answer (from the text):
A restraining power/person currently restrains the man of lawlessness until removed.
The passage does not name the restrainer—only that the Thessalonians “know” it.
Summary (scripture-based)

• Not imminent: certain events must occur first (2:2–3).
• Revealed before Christ’s return; destroyed at His appearing (2:3, 8).
• Restrained by an unnamed restrainer until removed (2:6–7).

 

[GaryA]

I will post a Professor Dave video about how airplanes can't work on a flat earth, and you will respond to it's criticism, or at least say, you don't know how to respond. I'm disappointed in you for believing flat earth, but I will say, sometimes you crazies have a valid point in discrediting the mainstream view, but that's all I got for this thread....

I am disappointed in you for telling me what I am going to do. Therefore, I will do no such thing. Instead, I will ignore whatever video you may post. Also, I think it better to not do too much that might derail this thread.

 

[kinda]

Perhaps, I left something out that I was thinking but did not write into the post. I said what I said on the basis of referring to "the whole" of different major groups of people in different places in history. I know that there are martyrs today that die because they are true to their faith. I was saying that the martyrs of the Dark Ages as a whole were the strongest in their faith.

Well, anyone who dies as a martyr in the Christian faith has strong faith. Being eaten my animals in the Dark Ages, must of been brutal though. What a testimony though!

 

[kinda]

I am disappointed in you for telling me what I am going to do. Therefore, I will do no such thing. Instead, I will ignore whatever video you may post. Also, I think it better to not do too much that might derail this thread.

I will put in conspiracy forum, where it belongs. You can respond, if you change your mind. No biggy. I already heard this flat earth ideas for like three years.. We can agree here in the second coming, it's a welcoming change.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I literally can't see a way to prepare for the Tribulation, except trust Jesus. The biggest concerns are gonna be food and water. Move out to the country maybe. There will also be extreme sunburn from the sun going hot, but at a different stage the sun goes dark. Woe is the pregnant during this time. I can see cannibalism coming.. Terrible. When you haven't eaten in a week, or two... Things can get crazy fast.

I'm having a hard time figuring it out. So, if you move to the country now, you will have to figure out to survive living in the country. My best guess is most just aren't gonna make it, and the select few will have supernatural help, or just lucky. Do I know we are living in the end times? It's possible, but I'm still on the fence on this point.

It's pretty simple. Remember during the covid vaccinations, people were required to take the shot to be abe to keep working, or be fired for refusing it?

Only with the mark of the beast, refusing the mark and/or refusing to worship the antichrist will not only take away your ability to buy or sell, but will also get you executed too.

Personally, it would be better to be executed than slowly die from starvation or being burnt to a crisp by the sun.

Also as you know, the first four trumpets will bring global disasters. This will make the world unbearable to live in. Food will become scarce and there will be massive inflation. Those who take the mark to keep buying and selling will not have much resources to produce and sell things or have enough money stuff to buy everything they need and want.

About moving to the country....the globalists want to move everyone to the cities and prohibit people from living in more rural areas.

Yeah, the situation is dire, and this is why God’s people need to have strong faith in Jesus to be abe to endure all this without falling away.

We should talk about how God helped some people survive the holocaust for the people God meant to be "alive and remain."


️

 

[GaryA]

It sounds like you're having trouble understanding the KJV there. Let's read the same verse out of the NLT Translation which may shed some light on it for you.

Hebrews 9:28
28 so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him..../NLT

2nd trip, not to deal with sins so no Judgment this trip. There must be a 3rd trip to deal with sin. I didnt say it, the scriptures do! Wow so I wonder what the Lord will be doing here on His 2nd trip?

A pretrib rapture that's what. He comes for His bride.

You should stick with the KJV.

Hebrews 9:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This verse is not saying anything about "dealing with sin"; rather, it is referring to Christ appearing in a different "role" than before - sinless (having passed beyond the necessity of his "role" during His First Coming) with power and glory - actively in command of everything - to "finish" (finalize) the salvation of the saints.

Your NLT makes a bad translation.