"Prayer" How did we get here?

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Watchman22

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Dec 9, 2025
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Matthew 6:5-6

King James Version



5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

With this authoritive prescription given by Jesus the anointed messiah, why do most of the church world do the opposite of what He taught?

With this definition of prayer , why do we look at prayer in scripture as audible?

Why does the church world fight so vehemently for prayer in schools when it can be done anytime, anywhere, the way Jesus taught it.

Why is prayer only acceptable to the church world today if its' done exactly as Christ told us not to do it?

I put this challenge to the members. Show any biblical text that supports audible prayer. but remember the datum point Christ gave us.

And just a disclaimer, i understand that even when people are gathered into groups, they could stay true to what Jesus taught.
 
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Taking one passage as the only “authoritative” teaching on prayer is treating Scripture as a single meal of white rice instead of a lifetime’s worth of balanced nourishment.
 
Watchman22 said:
With this definition of prayer , why do we look at prayer in scripture as audible?
Click to expand...
Jesus prayed audibly, and publicly. The admonition has to do with "that they may be seen of men." In other words,
check your motive. Jesus condemned the motivation of hypocrisy in prayer. He criticized those who prayed in public
settings, such as synagogues and on street corners, specifically to "be seen by others" and gain human applause.
 
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Magenta said:
Jesus prayed audibly, and publicly. The admonition has to do with "that they may be seen of men." In other words,
check your motive. Jesus condemned the motivation of hypocrisy in prayer. He criticized those who prayed in public
settings, such as synagogues and on street corners, specifically to "be seen by others" and gain human applause.
Click to expand...

Where did Jesus pray audibly?
 
Watchman22 said:
Where did Jesus pray audibly?
Click to expand...
John chapter 17 is a good example of that...

John17paraphrases.png

John 17 paraphrase
 
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Magenta said:
John chapter 17 is a good example of that...

John17paraphrases.png

John 17 paraphrase
Click to expand...

I think i see what your referring to. The passage said He "spoke" and "said" , He spoke and said hundreds of times. When He prayed , the word prayer is used. So that particular passage wouldn't' apply to prayer.
 
Praying out loud is still orayer and even when Jesus multplied the bread and fish he prayed over the food which means he said it out loud or at least the text would imply that but there is power in the spoken word so therefore speaking prayer is not something you do in silence
 
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Blain said:
Praying out loud is still orayer and even when Jesus multplied the bread and fish he prayed over the food which means he said it out loud or at least the text would imply that but there is power in the spoken word so therefore speaking prayer is not something you do in silence
Click to expand...

Why would you assume He prayed audibly , going against His own teachings.

Do you just not agree with how Jesus taught us how to pray, in secret?
 
Watchman22 said:
Why would you assume He prayed audibly , going against His own teachings.

Do you just not agree with how Jesus taught us how to pray, in secret?
Click to expand...
Actually nowhere in the verse you are refering to does he say to pray in silence and not out loud he just gives an example of how to pray counter to the hypocrites who would be out in the open for everyone to see and prayed to look spiritual

He actually says to do it in secret but this does not say to do it in silence he just says to do it in private where does he say to not speak out loud or to do it in silence?
 
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Watchman22 said:
Matthew 6:5-6

King James Version



5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

With this authoritive prescription given by Jesus the anointed messiah, why do most of the church world do the opposite of what He taught?

With this definition of prayer , why do we look at prayer in scripture as audible?

Why does the church world fight so vehemently for prayer in schools when it can be done anytime, anywhere, the way Jesus taught it.

Why is prayer only acceptable to the church world today if its' done exactly as Christ told us not to do it?

I put this challenge to the members. Show any biblical text that supports audible prayer. but remember the datum point Christ gave us.

And just a disclaimer, i understand that even when people are gathered into groups, they could stay true to what Jesus taught.
Click to expand...

Something else I should have highlighted. Jesus said " when you pray" , pray the Lords prayer, that wasn't for Him. So also technically when He taught us to pray in secret, not audibly with others, that was for us too, not Him.
 
Blain said:
Actually nowhere in the verse you are refering to does he say to pray in silence and not out loud he just gives an example of how to pray counter to the hypocrites who would be out in the open for everyone to see and prayed to look spiritual

He actually says to do it in secret but this does not say to do it in silence he just says to do it in private where does he say to not speak out loud or to do it in silence?
Click to expand...

Secret would imply between A called out one and God only, yes?
 
Blain said:
It implies nothing except to do it in private as to not be seen by others again I ask where does he say to do it in silence?
Click to expand...

I never said silence you did.

I think prayer done correctly, let's say in a group, would be within themselves, not audibly. This is why the school prayer issue is so backwards.

If your alone, you could pray audibly and still stay true to what Jesus taught.

Show me in NT Scripture where anyone prayed other than what Jesus taught.
 
Watchman22 said:
Matthew 6:5-6

King James Version



5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

With this authoritive prescription given by Jesus the anointed messiah, why do most of the church world do the opposite of what He taught?

With this definition of prayer , why do we look at prayer in scripture as audible?

Why does the church world fight so vehemently for prayer in schools when it can be done anytime, anywhere, the way Jesus taught it.

Why is prayer only acceptable to the church world today if its' done exactly as Christ told us not to do it?

I put this challenge to the members. Show any biblical text that supports audible prayer. but remember the datum point Christ gave us.

And just a disclaimer, i understand that even when people are gathered into groups, they could stay true to what Jesus taught.
Click to expand...
The only time a person should pray is when they're in distress or someone they have empathy for that leads them to pray for them with them or for them. But most likely to have empathy for someone, especially for someone that you don't know, it's that person who is showing empathy to a stranger may have been in a similar situation of the one that they're praying for. that's why we have experienced all different types of troubles so we can feel other pains that been in those situations that they have experienced.
But when someone is in distress, they can't eat or think about anything else but the situation they are in that hurting them. Like Jesus was distress on the Passover, that the disciples were asleep while He was in distress. but Jesus knew that there will be a time when the bridegroom will not be around that they'll fast, that there will be a time that they're going to go through troubles that will cause them not to eat or sleep, that will show them how Jesus was feeling right before His execution.

And so, the ancient Israelites prayed, the first part of the day, they fasted while hoping or pleading for God to help them with their troubles. But the next part of the day, they celebrated giving Him all the glory for helping them even though it hasn't been done but by their faith, they believe it's done.
the Beta Israel been prayed for thousands of years that God will bring them back to Israel. They called this festival prayer Sigd.
But the last few Sigd festivals, they were under distress, that they prayed from the heart because they were in so much stress by their government oppressing them very harshly like during the times of Moses.


 
4urenlightment said:
The only time a person should pray is when they're in distress or someone they have empathy for that leads them to pray for them with them or for them. But most likely to have empathy for someone, especially for someone that you don't know, it's that person who is showing empathy to a stranger may have been in a similar situation of the one that they're praying for. that's why we have experienced all different types of troubles so we can feel other pains that been in those situations that they have experienced.
But when someone is in distress, they can't eat or think about anything else but the situation they are in that hurting them. Like Jesus was distress on the Passover, that the disciples were asleep while He was in distress. but Jesus knew that there will be a time when the bridegroom will not be around that they'll fast, that there will be a time that they're going to go through troubles that will cause them not to eat or sleep, that will show them how Jesus was feeling right before His execution.

And so, the ancient Israelites prayed, the first part of the day, they fasted while hoping or pleading for God to help them with their troubles. But the next part of the day, they celebrated giving Him all the glory for helping them even though it hasn't been done but by their faith, they believe it's done.
the Beta Israel been prayed for thousands of years that God will bring them back to Israel. They called this festival prayer Sigd.
But the last few Sigd festivals, they were under distress, that they prayed from the heart because they were in so much stress by their government oppressing them very harshly like during the times of Moses.


Click to expand...

I would be highlighting the NT, after Jesus gave His teaching on prayer.
 
Watchman22 said:
I never said silence you did.

I think prayer done correctly, let's say in a group, would be within themselves, not audibly. This is why the school prayer issue is so backwards.

If your alone, you could pray audibly and still stay true to what Jesus taught.

Show me in NT Scripture where anyone prayed other than what Jesus taught.
Click to expand...
You still have not shown where Jesus said to do it in silence so your saying of how Jesus taught it is still invalid because you have not shown where he actually says to do it in silence

So if he never said that why do you put words in his mouth?
 
4urenlightment said:
The only time a person should pray is when they're in distress or someone they
have empathy for that leads them to pray for them with them or for them.
Click to expand...
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks
in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
 
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