Pastoral requirements
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You can tell where my daily readings are at. 
Here is the clear results of what happens with poor leadership, better put 'irresponsible leadership'.
Judges 3:11-12 NASB 11 Then the land had rest forty years. And Othniel the son of Kenaz died. 12 Now the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD. So the LORD strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the LORD.
Covid might be in that category. A test for the church as the World watches.
Here is the clear results of what happens with poor leadership, better put 'irresponsible leadership'.
Judges 3:11-12 NASB 11 Then the land had rest forty years. And Othniel the son of Kenaz died. 12 Now the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD. So the LORD strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the LORD.
Covid might be in that category. A test for the church as the World watches.
I disagree to some points. The gifts to the church, known as the Gift of Christ, found in Eph 4:11
11 And He(Christ) Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
in Greek, the word dōrea means gift, and Christos means Christ or gifts of Christ.
There is the training. for example, "Train up" as one does a child. or to study to show oneself approved unto God as 2tim 2:15 tell us to do.
Much of what you have identified, like the failure of pastors or failing churches, is not the cause.
But the effects of the following:
They have no substance. And they use up what is the essence of their ability and are not able to replace it and then suffer burn out.
You have to pray. You have to pull away and seek the lord to have your substances refilled. If you keep pulling from the Esseance and not refreshed and built up in prayer and seeking God, you will and are relying on your own ability, and then the gift God gave you suffers. We as ministers must be faithful
In the word of God and speak truth.
We must be men of Prayer and humble ourselves daily.
And we must wait on the Lord.
For our weapons are only Mighty through God! It is through God that the pulling down of the Stronghold happens, NOT in your ability to have a good message structure or ability to speak. Who made the mouth?
11 And He(Christ) Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
in Greek, the word dōrea means gift, and Christos means Christ or gifts of Christ.
There is the training. for example, "Train up" as one does a child. or to study to show oneself approved unto God as 2tim 2:15 tell us to do.
Much of what you have identified, like the failure of pastors or failing churches, is not the cause.
But the effects of the following:
- No prayer life
- No Biblical study life or biblically illiterate
- were not called by God
- they are trying to build a church instead of allowing God to build through them, building in vain
- left the Gospel message and replaced by entertainment
- Having a form of godliness but denying the power of God.
- burn out
They have no substance. And they use up what is the essence of their ability and are not able to replace it and then suffer burn out.
You have to pray. You have to pull away and seek the lord to have your substances refilled. If you keep pulling from the Esseance and not refreshed and built up in prayer and seeking God, you will and are relying on your own ability, and then the gift God gave you suffers. We as ministers must be faithful
In the word of God and speak truth.
We must be men of Prayer and humble ourselves daily.
And we must wait on the Lord.
For our weapons are only Mighty through God! It is through God that the pulling down of the Stronghold happens, NOT in your ability to have a good message structure or ability to speak. Who made the mouth?
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I have read and thought about your post and have come to wonder what it is that you were trying to express. Is it a lack of higher education, a lack of oversight, a lack of something else?
Many have pointed to 1 Timothy 3 for the qualifications of a pastor. Yet, in your response it appears that you have either honed in to the ones you wanted to choose from or have simply not read them.
You stated how many youth leaders have led their group of youth and yet when these kids reach adulthood they leave the faith. You seem to suggest that this is a failure of the youth leader. I would ask you if this makes Jesus a failure? He had a following of thousands at one point but His teachings were to hard for them and so they left. He sent out 70 men to heal and cast out devils in His name but by the end only 12 remained and even one of them betrayed Him.
There is a failing in our churches that we judge success as the world judges success. We look to numbers and activity, but Jesus looks at the heart. It is not how many follow but I'd those who follow do so in truth and spirit.
Pastors are to be blameless the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy for money, patient, not a brawler, not covetous, one the rule that his own hose well, having his children in subjection with all gravity, not a novice, and having a good report of them which are not of the church.
Looking at this list, the qualifications are extremely hard to meet and hold. It is much more than being a Christian and able to speak well.
In fact, Malachi 2 speaks about those who hold the office of the priest...what we would call the pastor today, and says that those who do not hold true to the office and glorify the name of God shall have dung spread upon their faces and will become contemptible and base before the people. This means that it is not only that the qualifications are high, but if one dishonors the office they are granted then the penalty is stiff and most unpleasant.
Yes, we yave too many hold the office that shouldn't, but this is not a fallacy od the office or the qualications for the office. This is the fault of the church by allowing unqualified men behind the pulpit and not holding them accountable according to the Word of God.
Many have pointed to 1 Timothy 3 for the qualifications of a pastor. Yet, in your response it appears that you have either honed in to the ones you wanted to choose from or have simply not read them.
You stated how many youth leaders have led their group of youth and yet when these kids reach adulthood they leave the faith. You seem to suggest that this is a failure of the youth leader. I would ask you if this makes Jesus a failure? He had a following of thousands at one point but His teachings were to hard for them and so they left. He sent out 70 men to heal and cast out devils in His name but by the end only 12 remained and even one of them betrayed Him.
There is a failing in our churches that we judge success as the world judges success. We look to numbers and activity, but Jesus looks at the heart. It is not how many follow but I'd those who follow do so in truth and spirit.
Pastors are to be blameless the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy for money, patient, not a brawler, not covetous, one the rule that his own hose well, having his children in subjection with all gravity, not a novice, and having a good report of them which are not of the church.
Looking at this list, the qualifications are extremely hard to meet and hold. It is much more than being a Christian and able to speak well.
In fact, Malachi 2 speaks about those who hold the office of the priest...what we would call the pastor today, and says that those who do not hold true to the office and glorify the name of God shall have dung spread upon their faces and will become contemptible and base before the people. This means that it is not only that the qualifications are high, but if one dishonors the office they are granted then the penalty is stiff and most unpleasant.
Yes, we yave too many hold the office that shouldn't, but this is not a fallacy od the office or the qualications for the office. This is the fault of the church by allowing unqualified men behind the pulpit and not holding them accountable according to the Word of God.
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The answer to your question about minimum is this, as others below have said simply put, you must be born of the water and Spirit. That is the wish to have. Should have? Humility that comes from knowing how much of a sinner you are. That you repent of those sins and seek His face and Will above all things. That you give mercy as you have been given mercy. That you love as you have been loved by him. The other person I answered, that is the lessons for all that the blind may see and the deaf may hear. For as one speaks of abuse and if they should honor their father and mother, I ask when the children abuse the mercy and love of their parents? Do the parents still not continue to love and give mercy? Only if they seek to be as their Lord who has done exactly that!
I can understand your disagreement, it must seem like a heavy lift and responsibility to be the Shepard 24/7 365. Hard for any man, as Mosses had that problem too.
What did Jesus instruct Peter to do? Feed his lambs or Shepard them?
How many people have you saved?
How did you save them and draw them near to God?
What did Jesus instruct Peter to do? Feed his lambs or Shepard them?
How many people have you saved?
How did you save them and draw them near to God?
You are right, and the key to understanding Christ’s command to Peter was he always stated, feed MY sheep and tend to MY lambs. He never released or relinquished His position. He is the good shepherd, He is the head and it is He and the Father who saves. It is they who draw people in. It is they who give us wisdom and understanding to share our food given to us freely with our brothers and sisters.
Not to become the Shepard, or in place of, for we are all His, but to help our fellow brothers and sisters grow from lambs, into sheep, into fellow mature watchers and then able to help each other through the Holy Spirit and His presence in us shepherd. This is where religious and religion gets in the way, that is why burnout occurs. We as man instead of seeking His will and His guidance, we sometimes think we know what what needs to be done and just run around and do. Without taking time to be still, pray, seek, and let God be God. Least we forget we are just a mature sheep in His flock showing others what to graze and where, and not the Shepard.
Love, a brother in Christ
Not to become the Shepard, or in place of, for we are all His, but to help our fellow brothers and sisters grow from lambs, into sheep, into fellow mature watchers and then able to help each other through the Holy Spirit and His presence in us shepherd. This is where religious and religion gets in the way, that is why burnout occurs. We as man instead of seeking His will and His guidance, we sometimes think we know what what needs to be done and just run around and do. Without taking time to be still, pray, seek, and let God be God. Least we forget we are just a mature sheep in His flock showing others what to graze and where, and not the Shepard.
Love, a brother in Christ
I am not sure the point that is being made. Church leaders are called to “oversee” the flock. This includes both feeding and sheparding. Paul called the elders to “protect the flock of God“ against “wolves” and other dangers. It concerns me that so many today are dismissive of the high calling of church leadership and the importance of the qualifications of that role.
Modern Western Christianity has developed a concept of “spirituality” that is utterly is void of humility and wants to answer to no one and nothing except ones own personal perspective and engage in a solitary, isolated journey. I find that many use the excuse that Jesus alone is our Shepard say that not so much as a devotion to Jesus but as a refusal to submit to any authority but their own.
Hebrews 13:17Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
Acts 15:22Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers
Acts 16:4As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem
1 Timothy 5:17Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching
1 Peter 5:5Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble
There is a place for leadership in the Church and there are qualifications for those positions. Christians are called to submit to them and honor them because they labor in preaching and teaching.
Modern Western Christianity has developed a concept of “spirituality” that is utterly is void of humility and wants to answer to no one and nothing except ones own personal perspective and engage in a solitary, isolated journey. I find that many use the excuse that Jesus alone is our Shepard say that not so much as a devotion to Jesus but as a refusal to submit to any authority but their own.
Hebrews 13:17Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
Acts 15:22Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers
Acts 16:4As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem
1 Timothy 5:17Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching
1 Peter 5:5Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble
There is a place for leadership in the Church and there are qualifications for those positions. Christians are called to submit to them and honor them because they labor in preaching and teaching.
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