Pastoral requirements

[ClayPot]

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. 7 The more they multiplied, the more they sinned against Me; I will change their glory into shame. 8 They feed on the sin of My people And direct their desire toward their iniquity. 9 And it will be, like people, like priest; So I will punish them for their ways And repay them for their deeds. 10 They will eat, but not have enough; They will play the harlot, but not increase, Because they have stopped giving heed to the LORD. NASB 1995

Pretty tragic.

 

[Edify]

A pastor can only be a pastor of a person or persons. Their calling is to shepherd those whom God has placed under their care. So, it is unbiblical to have pastors of nebulous groups or areas of ministry (eg. "Youth", "Children's", "Elderly", "Head", "Associate", etc.) Doing so, creates a culture wherein believers cannot discern the Body of Christ nor how each believer fits into Him. Early death and sickness result from such an arrangement.

2nd, having the grace of a pastor is a gift not something obtained by study. Certainly pastors should study but Biblically, no one is a pastor unless the Lord has made him one. You cannot graduate from seminary to force the Lord's hand. I have nothing against seminary, per se, but merely obtaining a degree does not make one a pastor in the Lord. A seminary degree might make one qualified to be a pastor in many churches but that is at the expense of the standard shown us in scripture.

Lastly, you cannot give to others what you don't have. If you do not have someone ruling over your soul then you cannot be a pastor. Who do you look to for correction, for guidance, for teaching, and for encouragement. If you say "Well, Jesus can do all that for me" not only do you ignore the connections show to us in scripture (including Jesus and His 12) but you take on a double-standard: one for you and another for the others. You mustn't do this. If you do, you will get the results you already wrote about;



This is not to say that none will leave you if you follow God's pattern (Jesus lost 1 out of the 12) but you cannot think to change the trajectory of the current church culture by embedding yourself in it.

Such things, because they run so opposed to the way "church is done", require wisdom and humility to understand.

Blessings

I am curious. Do you believe a false prophet/teacher/pastor will receive a teacher's/prophet's/pastor's judgment for leading the people astray?
After all, to whom much is given, much is required. If they hold that position, they keep the right one out.

 

[ClayPot]

Edify - You are bang on. The Major and Minor Prophets are clear about that.

I went to Agriculture (Beef Production) in the late 60's. Sheep production would be very parallel. Our Veterinary Professor told us 1 thing that changed the course of my life. I'll paraphrase it.

"Herd health is 80+ percent contingent on nutrition". I thot WOW, all I have to do is learn all I can learn about 'how to feed' my stock to prevent sickness and produce mature, re-producing stock.

The exact principle applies to our Spiritual lives. There is NO alternative or shortcut.

 

[NightTwister]

Here in America we have an epidemic of narcissistic tendencies. So pastors fresh out of Seminary want senior pastor positions.
Then we have current models where there is a board of directors that actually run the church and the senior pastor is not much more than a performer....he gives a great sermon but can't deal with people. Associate pastors deal with people...albeit poorly quite often because they are basically unsupervised. (I got lots of stories surrounding this)

Sure, attendance is down in a lot of mega churches...but small churches seem to be doing the same. It's basically fallout from the pandemic. People still keep catching Covid when they gather in large groups.

Bible colleges are NOT closing...one closed in the US because the program was poorly run, poorly done and the graduates couldn't preach.
Many of the seminaries are being used as platforms for ideologies instead of allowing the theologies to develop organically. IOW not teaching hermeneutics but teaching such classes as church finance, building program 101, outreach 102, Small group literature buying, music ministry, videography and how to use sermon helps.

Go look at the curriculum of a Seminary and see what is listed there.
Things like Hebrew grammar and writing styles and Koine Greek are missing....no Ancient Near East Anthropology courses...nothing pertaining to hermeneutics or how to use the various resources available.

The majority of churches proved during the Covid lockdowns that attendance is optional.

 

[Aaron56]

I am curious. Do you believe a false prophet/teacher/pastor will receive a teacher's/prophet's/pastor's judgment for leading the people astray?
After all, to whom much is given, much is required. If they hold that position, they keep the right one out.

If they do so willingly, yes. Many do so in ignorance, not understanding how far off the mark they are. They simply carry on the pattern of their particular group/denomination.

For the people: I believe many pew-sitters are content to stay put in their low-accountability environment. Attending a church service is heavily influenced by cultural norms: very much a form of godliness without the power.

 

[Edify]

Many do so in ignorance, not understanding how far off the mark they are

True, but God no longer winks at ignorance.

 

[Aaron56]

True, but God no longer winks at ignorance.

Very true. It will be difficult for anyone caught up in pseudo-belief to claim they did not know how to get the truth.

 

[JohnDB]

The majority of churches proved during the Covid lockdowns that attendance is optional.

Actually just the opposite if you look at the right metrics.

 

[ClayPot]

Yep I had a leader from a 1000+ Church CMA group tell me they were trying to figure out how to get half their people back. They should have stood against WHO and let God sort out the metrics.

 

[JohnDB]

Yep I had a leader from a 1000+ Church CMA group tell me they were trying to figure out how to get half their people back. They should have stood against WHO and let God sort out the metrics.

And that attitude is why they aren't coming back. I know that you believe that you hold all the right information about Covid-19. But the reason the people aren't coming back is that they absolutely do not believe what you do about Covid....at least not enough to bet their families lives on it.

And I know that I caught covid from some random church member who didn't think that they had it either. (I went no where else) And if it wasn't for the new antivirals it would have killed me.

Yep, you are the reason why people aren't coming back to church. And they aren't coming until the pandemic is really over.

 

[NightTwister]

Actually just the opposite if you look at the right metrics.

So most of the churches closed to in-person church. How is that the "wrong" metrics?

 

[Edify]

Yep, you are the reason why people aren't coming back to church. And they aren't coming until the pandemic is really over.

That's 2 judgment calls. God won't allow 1 person to run off half a church. More than likely they will never come back because of the falling away.

 

[JohnDB]

So most of the churches closed to in-person church. How is that the "wrong" metrics?

The behavior of people today is worse than pre-pandemic. Cancel culture is still being practiced...

A certain amount of "normalicy" stems from people interacting with each other and learning what to do vx not to do.

A lot of that got erased by the long isolation of quarantines. People claimed that they did church online....and at first that was true....but as the quarantines continued people stopped logging into services or watching them on youtube.

They continued giving to churches they didn't even watch on the internet....and eventually quit giving altogether as their behaviors continued to degenerate.

 

[JohnDB]

That's 2 judgment calls. God won't allow 1 person to run off half a church. More than likely they will never come back because of the falling away.

Not even Christian Concerts are doing well these days. Some artists are surviving by doing large church venues instead of concert halls. Concert halls are a waste of money for them.

Nobody wants to be in a huge crowd anymore due to antivaxxers and covid carriers in their midst. They dont want to catch covid.

Nobody wants to assume that risk.


There's only two motivators for most people....wants and fears.

Fear of getting sick or watching a family member get sick and die is still strong.

 

[NightTwister]

The behavior of people today is worse than pre-pandemic. Cancel culture is still being practiced...

A certain amount of "normalicy" stems from people interacting with each other and learning what to do vx not to do.

A lot of that got erased by the long isolation of quarantines. People claimed that they did church online....and at first that was true....but as the quarantines continued people stopped logging into services or watching them on youtube.

They continued giving to churches they didn't even watch on the internet....and eventually quit giving altogether as their behaviors continued to degenerate.

All of which has zero to do with what I said. Church leadership said online church was equivalent to in person during the pandemic. If it was equivalent then, there's no reason it isn't equivalent now.

 

[JohnDB]

All of which has zero to do with what I said. Church leadership said online church was equivalent to in person during the pandemic. If it was equivalent then, there's no reason it isn't equivalent now.

I never once heard leadership ever say online was equivalent....never.

 

[ClayPot]

Joshua 21: 44 NASB And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand.

I/we have all heard of Churches that did NOT bow the knee to the Liberal enemy of the Church and God took care of the results. Those Churches usually filled up and remain so today and because people are looking for someone to STAND FOR TRUTH. Another Pastoral qualification.

Those who have not, or are not may find themselves out with the goats on judgement day. "Narrow is the way."

 

[ClayPot]

PS: Joshua 21:45 Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass.

 

[JohnDB]

Joshua 21: 44 NASB And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand.

I/we have all heard of Churches that did NOT bow the knee to the Liberal enemy of the Church and God took care of the results. Those Churches usually filled up and remain so today and because people are looking for someone to STAND FOR TRUTH. Another Pastoral qualification.

Those who have not, or are not may find themselves out with the goats on judgement day. "Narrow is the way."

So you endorse the actions of Immanuel Baptist Church in Little Rock Arkansas. They stayed open during quarantines....and everyone got sick....many died....but they stayed open and functioning. (Kinda)

Well....currently the school is closed due to not one but two (one female and one male) pedophiles working there and SR leadership knew all about it and did nothing more than tell them to stop. DHS wasn't called, police weren't called....the whole thing swept under the rug and hidden. Both pedophiles eventually left after a few years (after NOT stopping their sexual assaults) and got similar positions in schools and churches working with children again. The church blew up eventually with all the press coverage of the mega church. Deacons resigned, Senior Pastor quit/fired...most other leadership left, families with children left in droves, and a skeleton crew remains.



Yeah....so there's that.

 

[ClayPot]

Your putting words in my mouth I did not say. But by what you say. God may have been judging them for a lot more than Covid. I'm sure you heard that the California Courts awarded Grace Community Church a nonguilty verdict and made Newsom pay their court fees. We have numerous examples of that in Canada.

What is of Primary Importance is Joshua 22:29 Far be it from us that we should rebel against the LORD and turn away from following the LORD this day,