OSAS= House Built on Sand

[mailmandan]

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7

JPT

Those who are born of God practice righteousness because they are righteous and not to become righteous.

 

[stonesoffire]

I thought building ones house on the solid "rock" meant building your lige on God and His principals..the "sand" was building you life on what society dictates..always shiftimg and nothing solid etc

Our walk is going from glory to glory Jewel. So building ones life on the principles of the written Word is wise, but is because we have received salvation. Being led of Holy Spirit is the walk of the spiritual man or woman in Christ. I knew nothing about this when first born again.

We are Spirit, connected to heaven and the kingdom of heaven now, and we move on earth from this "realm". The natural man only sees earth.

With the baptism of Holy Spirit comes giftings that are of the heavenly realm and not of earth.

 

[stonesoffire]

Since the New Testament was written in Greek, reading it from Hebrew would be reading a translation into Hebrew, just like the KJV is a translation into English. So what have you achieved through this? Nothing.

Hebrew is a poetic language that tells a story. Holy Spirit interprets for us through revelation. The reason behind the verse that speaks of Him teaching us and not needing men.

 

[grace77]

You seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Paul said the sinning fellow at Corinth had to be turned over to the destruction of his flesh SO HE COULD BE SAVED. You can't just decide you're going to ignore that essential part of the passage in order to create your own erroneous doctrine, and worse, teach it to others.

One brother, I knew, went as far as to say that we are on probation, as it were, until it is seen whose life we loved more...our own or HIS.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hebrew is a poetic language that tells a story. Holy Spirit interprets for us through revelation. The reason behind the verse that speaks of Him teaching us and not needing men.

We need to keep things in perspective. Today English is the language of the world, and God already anticipated that. While Hebrew is a beautiful language, a faithful translation of Hebrew into any other language serves God's purposes.

Also, while it is true that the Holy Spirit teaches all believers, and that we do not "need" men to teach us God's truth, Scripture also tells us that God has given some the spiritual gift of "teachers" (along with evangelists and pastors) in order to edify the Church. Some Christians do need teachers to help them understand Scripture.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-4-11/
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (Eph 4:11,12).

The apostles and prophets are to be found in the Scriptures -- the written Word of God. But the Church still needs evangelists, pastors, and teachers.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

As for the 1Cor5 passage, I believe it is worded this way for a specific reason:

"11 But now, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone being designated a brother if he is sexually immoral or a coveter, or an idolater or verbal abuser, or a drunkard or swindler—with such a one not even to eat. 12 For what is it to me to judge those outside? Do you not judge those within? 13 But God will judge those outside. “Expel the evil out from among yourselves.” "

In other words, it doesn't simply say "a brother," it says "anyone being designated a brother"... I believe that specifically shows that they are "called" a brother (by others and by themselves) but are not actually "a brother" (in Christ). If it did, it would just say "any brother [doing such]."

God will judge those outside. (And that is where this person is to be put, by those in this particular church.) I don't believe the passage is saying the person "lost their salvation" [and this action will aid them in getting it back] (nor forfeited it).

 

[stonesoffire]

We need to keep things in perspective. Today English is the language of the world, and God already anticipated that. While Hebrew is a beautiful language, a faithful translation of Hebrew into any other language serves God's purposes.

Also, while it is true that the Holy Spirit teaches all believers, and that we do not "need" men to teach us God's truth, Scripture also tells us that God has given some the spiritual gift of "teachers" (along with evangelists and pastors) in order to edify the Church. Some Christians do need teachers to help them understand Scripture.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-4-11/
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (Eph 4:11,12).

The apostles and prophets are to be found in the Scriptures -- the written Word of God. But the Church still needs evangelists, pastors, and teachers.

I have no argument here.

 

[Jewel5712]

Our walk is going from glory to glory Jewel. So building ones life on the principles of the written Word is wise, but is because we have received salvation. Being led of Holy Spirit is the walk of the spiritual man or woman in Christ. I knew nothing about this when first born again.

We are Spirit, connected to heaven and the kingdom of heaven now, and we move on earth from this "realm". The natural man only sees earth.

With the baptism of Holy Spirit comes giftings that are of the heavenly realm and not of earth.

I know all that but am STILL trying to get a Straight answer to the OPs meaning of "HOUSE BUILT ON SAND" ..THAT whole comcept..ive asked previously..posted MY understanding but no one is being straight!

 

[Ralph-]

I know all that but am STILL trying to get a Straight answer to the OPs meaning of "HOUSE BUILT ON SAND" ..THAT whole comcept..ive asked previously..posted MY understanding but no one is being straight!

When you don't DO the will of the Father you are like a building built on the sand which will not survive the coming storm of God's Judgment.

 

[Ralph-]

Some Christians do need teachers to help them understand Scripture.

Absolutely correct. What we don't need (ultimately) is someone to tell us what is true and what is not. What John is saying is we all, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, have the capacity to discern whether what some 'teacher' is telling us is truth or not. Notice I said 'ultimately'.

 

[Ralph-]

When you don't DO the will of the Father you are like a building built on the sand which will not survive the coming storm of God's Judgment.

The reason for the many pages of discussion is many, if not most, Christians think that's not true because they argue that once you are saved you are always saved, no matter what, even if you don't lift a pinky in obedience to God. That is the deception that is destroying the visible church in these end times before Jesus comes back.

 

[Ralph-]

I don't believe the passage is saying the person "lost their salvation" [and this action will aid them in getting it back] (nor forfeited it).

This person had to die to the flesh in order to be saved. Doesn't matter if he was ever really saved, or fell away from salvation. The point is, he's not going to be saved when Jesus comes back unless he dies to the flesh.

If he was a believer and he was forever and irretrievably saved as 'once saved always saved' insists, then there would be no need for him to die in order to be saved, because he's already saved and can't lose it. So we see, this is definitely NOT a once saved always saved passage.

 

[Jewel5712]

When you don't DO the will of the Father you are like a building built on the sand which will not survive the coming storm of God's Judgment.

So its exactly like i said previously...

 

[Jewel5712]

The reason for the many pages of discussion is many, if not most, Christians think that's not true because they argue that once you are saved you are always saved, no matter what, even if you don't lift a pinky in obedience to God. That is the deception that is destroying the visible church in these end times before Jesus comes back.

Takes 2 to argue..stop the cycle and conceed?

If we put as much effort in getting off our butts and offline n went out to WITNESS like we are commanded to do as we put in arguing HERE...i think there might be more coming to Christ as opposed to here arguing..who has been brought to Christ? Kinda makes you wonder if we're actually DOING what God wants us to do ....like you stated above..my guess is..NO

 

[Ralph-]

...makes you wonder if we're actually DOING what God wants us to do ....like you stated above..my guess is..NO

I am living for Jesus and the kingdom of God. I'm like a wise man who house built his house on the rock.

 

[Jewel5712]

I am living for Jesus and the kingdom of God. I'm like a wise man who house built his house on the rock.

So..are you going out witnessing and brining others to christ? Its a command. .

 

[Jewel5712]

@Ralph- ...im not all pointing fingers cause as you know..i like to debate as well but arent we really just missing the BIG PICTURE and splitting hairs on what Gods called us to do? Sittimg online debating for hours MIGHT be a way Satan distracts us from the BIGGER PICTURE..witnessing!

 

[dcontroversal]

They weren't just chastised, they were destroyed and not allowed to inherit the promises. It was a shadow of the reality; an instructional example for us and a type pointing to the anti-type of not inheriting the promise of eternal life because of unbelief.

Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 1:5​

​

But God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the wilderness. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, nor grumble, just as some of them grumbled, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to those people as an example, but are written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, the one who thinks that he stands must watch out lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 10:5-12​

Wrong again.....it had to do with the position of rest afforded believers in this life and had nothing to do with their eternal standing...your rose colored I can lose my salvation dogma does not allow you to see the truth...

 

[dcontroversal]

So..are you going out witnessing and brining others to christ? Its a command. .

Funny he actually believes that when in reality he has built his house on quicksand with the plenteous in number group that believes they know Jesus and have the right to enter based upon his works.....!!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"Not everyone saying to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of My Father in the heavens." Matthew 7:21blb

I believe the text of Matthew 7:21 shows it to be the equivalent of passages such as:

--Matthew 25:11,1 [the plural virgins (involving "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. MK; see verse 10 in the nasb, for example [also Lk12:36-37,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal]--not the ONE who He is MARRYING (involving "the MARRIAGE" itself; that is, the distinction found between Rev19:9 and 19:7)]

--Matthew 25:31-34 and context [the "ye BLESSED" and the "ye cursed" who will have either aided or not aided "the least of these My brethren" (v.40, which I believe refers specifically to the believing remnant of Israel IN/DURING the future tribulation period, i.e. "in that day," who will be being gravely persecuted during that specific time period, and who are NOT the ones being judged/separated in this particular context)]

--Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 [the passage where Jesus had PREVIOUSLY spoken to His disciples about the subject of which they are inquiring of Him in the later setting of Matt24:3, and which He is answering in the context of the Olivet Discourse [which context is not covering the subject of our Rapture, but of His Second Coming to the earth, and the specific time period leading up to that])


... all of which are passages about who will and will not "enter" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (in their mortal bodies), upon His "return" there (at the time of His Second Coming [to the earth]; not at the time of our Rapture [in the air: which pertains solely to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all other time periods])

The phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" speaks of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (promised particularly to Israel, but to which "guests" [Gentiles] will ALSO be invited [during the future tribulation period, Matt24:14[26:13], Rev7, Matt22:8-14, Rev19:9, etc]) and into which LIVING/MORTALS will enter (besides people being "resurrected" for it, such as OT saints like Daniel [Dan12:13] and Trib saints who [come to faith within the trib and] die during the trib [Rev20:4]).

"The kingdom of the heavens" [the earthly MK] = "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" = "the age [singular] to come" (commencing upon His "return" to the earth). Only "the righteous" [the "ye BLESSED"] will enter that time period [the earthly MK; those STILL LIVING will enter in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children--others will be "resurrected" to stand again on the earth, for it]).


As to "the Church which is His body," we are to set our mind on things above (as opposed to minding [Israel's] earthly things), for our citizenship is in heaven (where we are already "seated with Him" positionally/legally), and from whence we eagerly await... the One delivering us out from "the wrath coming" (when our bodies will undergo "change"--1Cor15:53b / 2Cor5:3-4 "clothed upon" [that is, apart from having to die first (speaking of the "we which are alive and remain" [portion of the ONE BODY] at the time of our Rapture [together with "the dead IN Christ" who it says "shall rise first"])]).

This is the distinction between Rev19:9 (not aorist, and not who He is MARRYING) and 19:7 (aorist, "wife [SINGULAR]," at the time of the chpt 19 events of His "return" to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom).