Not By Works

[OneOfHis]

No, depending on what his faith --his believing--looks like.
But surely, that will also determine what his walk looks like too, for sanctification is by faith too. So if you stop believing, your sanctification will end too and you will go back to the world and be condemned with the world. You won't have Christ to cover your sins anymore because you don't believe in him anymore.

Ok, I will reword my point.

You believe one of Gods born again children can end up in the lake of fire.

I believe God keeps every single one of His children.


In regards to saving faith, I believe this is met with Gods works in us, a complete transformation that can not be undone.

 

[Judges1318]

Genuine believers cling to Him because they are His children. It's not a difficult burden or tightrope act.

Depends on how deeply rooted the word is in a person.
The Galatians are an example of a weaker beleiver's struggle with the enemies of faith and the perseverance of faith. God knew them, but Paul balks at saying they knew Him. They were immature, like Jesus talks about in the Parable of the Sower. It's the firmly rooted believers in type 4 soil that can persevere to the end. That's why we are exhorted to grow in faith. So we'll continue in our believing to the end and be saved when Jesus comes back, not turned away.

 

[Judges1318]

You believe one of Gods born again children can end up in the lake of fire.

No, only a former born again person can end up in the lake of fire.
God is faithful to his own.
That's why we should remain in his household through continued faith.

In regards to saving faith, I believe this is met with Gods works in us, a complete transformation that can not be undone.

You're certainly entitled to believe that and without harassment or persecution. Just as I am entitled to believe a child of God can be dis-inherited by becoming a slave.

 

[dcontroversal]

None of us can give up. Every day, all day, we will faithe into one thing or another. You are faithing into God's word instead of God Himself, a real living person!

This is such an idiotic statement and reeks of a complete ignorance of the truth......Go start your own thread and see how this blather get's received.....WOW man....!

 

[dcontroversal]

I get my understanding of Faith applied from the Greek Scriptures, you get yours from the translated English Scriptures.

The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from pisteuo. Only the people who have built their understanding on the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing cry works salvation. And I'm proving to you that the mistranslations even take work and effort! So it's back to the drawing board for you.

No.....you got it from your mentor and false teacher that has since died!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Gotta be yours to talk about first! I'm waiting for you guys to begin true NT Faith. You admit you don't know what that is, I've told you, what are you waiting for? First things first!

hahahahahhaa dude....all you do is peddle the idiocy that your now dead mentor peddled....you do not know anything about faith!

 

[dcontroversal]

Trusting God is me trying to preserve myself?

You are a joke and cannot even be honest with what you really do....You do not trust God.....You trust yourself to maintain your own faith.....cut to the chase, quit being deceptive about what you really peddle Ralph!

 

[dcontroversal]

Star keeps talking about how 'holding fast' is works salvation. Then I show her the 'holding fast' scriptures, so I have no choice but to conclude that the Bible teaches salvation is by works.

" 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

Even if this is 'descriptive', not 'prescriptive', you still have to hold firmly to the word or you're not saved.


No, I understand the difference between them quite well.
Both are accomplished through having faith in Christ. Yet, having faith is called 'works' in this thread.
I'm not aware of any scripture that says having faith is you trying to justify/sanctify yourself.

You don't undsterstand a thing pal!

 

[dcontroversal]

I've posted really heavy on this subject. If you're interested,check them out then get back to me.

She has no need to read your corrupt hogwash....She understands just fine....and why would anyone in their right mind want to read the parroted rigmarole that came from your now dead mentor.....he sure lead you astray!

 

[dcontroversal]

He has been teaching that since day 1

Yea he has.....rather comical....one skewing faith and peddling a now dead man's idiotic view of faith and another one that states clearly that he must help Jesus maintian thay which Jesus said he would finish and complete....both of them are wrong and false!

 

[dcontroversal]

I get what you’re saying now. These antinomians are so averse to evidence of conversion, any type of works that as soon as they hear the word they think “works gospel.”

Any fool that states or believes that one MUST MAINTAIN FAITH OR LOSE salvation states clearly that Jesus is a liar....end of story and that is exactly what that joker peddles....and your anti-law crap is getting old and is a false accusation leveled at people who have clearly embraced the purpose of the law.....you are almost as bad as the two jokers in this thread that are skewing faith and denying that Jesus finishes and completes faith in us!

 

[preacher4truth]

No, only a former born again person can end up in the lake of fire.
God is faithful to his own.
That's why we should remain in his household through continued faith.


You're certainly entitled to believe that and without harassment or persecution. Just as I am entitled to believe a child of God can be dis-inherited by becoming a slave.

Now you're off track. There are no former believers who end up in hell nor the lake of fire. Jesus saves every single true convert and none are lost. He will save them and raise them, both are guaranteed inseparable facts as per John 6:40.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now you're off track. There are no former believers who end up in hell nor the lake of fire. Jesus saves every single true convert and none are lost. He will save them and raise them, both are guaranteed inseparable facts as per John 6:40.

We’ll see. He proved it for us

 

[Judges1318]

Now you're off track. There are no former believers who end up in hell nor the lake of fire.

I do not subscribe to Calvin's interpretation of election.
Obviously, if someone believes that election means God assigns beforehand who is going to be created a believer and who is going to be created an unbeliever you have no choice but to believe that the believer can not stop believing. I don't subscribe to that understanding of election.

Jesus saves every single true convert and none are lost. He will save them and raise them, both are guaranteed inseparable facts as per John 6:40.

I believe this.
The condition for this promise is that you are presently believing.
This is an ironclad promise for those who are believing.

I only differ from you in that I believe the believer can stop believing (like the Galatians did).
If a person stops believing they no longer have the promise that their believing secures for them. They lose the benefit of Christ in justification (i.e. the Galatians).

And God decides how long he will try to bring a person back to believing before he hardens them in that unbelief. But once he does, it's over, they can't come back to repentance because God does not allow Christ to be put to open shame.

 

[Lightskin]

I believe God keeps every single one of His children.

John 6:39

 

[EleventhHour]

No, only a former born again person can end up in the lake of fire.
God is faithful to his own.
That's why we should remain in his household through continued faith.


You're certainly entitled to believe that and without harassment or persecution. Just as I am entitled to believe a child of God can be dis-inherited by becoming a slave.

No such thing as a former born again/born from above person
..that would be equivalent to a person unbirthing themselves

What you push is immeasurably horrible!

 

[preacher4truth]

I do not subscribe to Calvin's interpretation of election.
Obviously, if someone believes that election means God assigns beforehand who is going to be created a believer and who is going to be created an unbeliever you have no choice but to believe that the believer can not stop believing. I don't subscribe to that understanding of election.



I believe this.
The condition for this promise is that you are presently believing.
This is an ironclad promise for those who are believing.

I only differ from you in that I believe the believer can stop believing (like the Galatians did).
If a person stops believing they no longer have the promise that their believing secures for them. They lose the benefit of Christ in justification (i.e. the Galatians).

And God decides how long he will try to bring a person back to believing before he hardens them in that unbelief. But once he does, it's over, they can't come back to repentance because God does not allow Christ to be put to open shame.

Sorry, but Calvin didn't coin John 6:40, Christ did.

By the way, the Galatians didn't stop believing which is why Paul said he stood in doubt of them, and, desired to see Christ formed in them which would show their conversion true. Note Galatians 4:19-20.

It is a fact that we are not saved by choosing; John 1:13; and that we are saved only because God elected us to salvation; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

So, with your unbiblical take salvation is up to you, not God or his purpose and will as in Ephesians 1. Scary place to be because it is not the Gospel.

 

[Judges1318]

Sorry, but Calvin didn't coin John 6:40, Christ did.

I already told you I agree with John 6:40.
What I disagree with is Calvin's understanding of election.

I can agree with exactly what John 6:40 says and not have to agree with Calvin. Since I'm not Calvinist I am able to see that and other scriptures outside of the only way Calvinists can see them.
I'm not being provocative. I'm simply stating this from experience.

By the way, the Galatians didn't stop believing

They did.
They went back to reliance on the law for justification and away from faith in Christ for justification.

and, desired to see Christ formed in them which would show their conversion true. Note Galatians 4:19-20.

I never said they were never saved.
I'm the one who keeps pointing out they were really saved--yet they fell away from faith in Christ for justification. The very thing Calvin said can't happen.

It is a fact that we are not saved by choosing; John 1:13; and that we are saved only because God elected us to salvation; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

We are saved because we believe in Christ for forgiveness of sin/ justification through God's enabling gift of faith. God chooses us on the basis of our believing. He ordained faith as the way to be justified from the beginning. Justification based on the merit of works was never the way God's people were to be elected (chosen).

So, with your unbiblical take salvation is up to you

It's only up to me to respond to what God, and God alone, makes available to a person in the first place. It is his will that all men respond in believing, but even the Bible says most will not.

 

[preacher4truth]

@Judges1318 Furthermore your errant statement that the Galatians stopped believing is shortsighted as you’re not following your own fallacious teachings: If they stopped believing there was no need for Paul to write them or persuade them to the Gospel. Why? Well, according to you, not contextually interpreted Scripture, they cannot be brought back again because they will bring Christ to open public shame.

All this is to show false teachings are always inconsistent, such as I’ve shown yours to be in this case.

 

[preacher4truth]

@Judges1318 No, you actually don’t believe John 6:40. The ones who are saved will also be resurrected, these two statements are inseparable facts that will take place in all who come to Christ.