Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

Now you're off track.

New flash he is always been off track!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

New flash he is always been off track!!

We tried to tell him. But you know how that goes

 

[OneOfHis]

No, only a former born again person can end up in the lake of fire.
God is faithful to his own.
That's why we should remain in his household through continued faith.

Former born again person?
Would you suppose a former born again person could become born again, again?

You're certainly entitled to believe that and without harassment or persecution. Just as I am entitled to believe a child of God can be dis-inherited by becoming a slave.

It is impossible for us to believe something we can't see as true. I just have trouble understanding how you believe God could save someone from a just punishment, then that same someone ends up burning in Hell.


We can know now we have eternal life. This is a gift of God.


You always mention to keep believing... it just sounds so wrong....

It is impossible for me to not believe in God.... I know Him.... I trust in Christ... (part of faith is more than just belief but also trust.... confidence.... FAITHFULNESS-loyalty)

His sheep hear His voice and if we were to wander so far off we couldn't.... He would come find us....


(please if you respond don't delete anything even if you don't address it all)

 

[EleventhHour]

We tried to tell him. But you know how that goes

I do indeed

Surely someone like myself who is irrational and guilty of preaching antinoniamisn is hardly worth listen to!

 

[Pisteuo]

No, believing is not a work that merits salvation and it's also not just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). Jesus gets all the merit. By believing I am simply receiving the gift of eternal life and not working for salvation.

That's ridiculous!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do indeed

Surely someone like myself who is irrational and guilty of preaching antinoniamisn is hardly worth listen to!

Yep I stopped listening to you ages ago

 

[Pisteuo]

Belief is not based on effort

Belief is being persuaded, convinced...it passive...one cannot force themselves to believe.

It is you who does understand belief

Oh I understand belief. It's a noun, whos corresponding verb is believing!

Unlike Faith, a noun who's corresponding verb is, oh wait , there isn't one!

 

[OneOfHis]

That's ridiculous!

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yep I stopped listening to you ages ago

A very, very smart move on your part

I still listen to you....because I am a super duper loving, kind, patient, doer of all and every good work, filled with all fruits of the spirit believer, which without a shadow of a doubt proves my salvation!!!

 

[Pisteuo]

Belief is not based on effort

Belief is being persuaded, convinced...it passive...one cannot force themselves to believe.

It is you who does understand belief

"You" made mental decisions a work when you accuse surrender to Christ being works salvation! Now when you make a decision to believe it's Not a work. You really expect anyone including yourself to buy that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A very, very smart move on your part

I still listen to you....because I am a super duper loving, kind, patient, doer of all and every good work, filled with all fruits of the spirit believer, which without a shadow of a doubt proves my salvation!!!

I think you need to do a few more works. I need more proof!

 

[EleventhHour]

"You" made mental decisions a work when you accuse surrender to Christ being works salvation! Now when you make a decision to believe it's Not a work. You really expect anyone including yourself to buy that?

Can you force yourself to believe something you do not want to believe?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yep I stopped listening to you ages ago

 

[preacher4truth]

That's ridiculous!

You just mocked the Gospel, showing its truths to be a stumbling block to you.

 

[Judges1318]

@Judges1318 Furthermore your errant statement that the Galatians stopped believing is shortsighted as you’re not following your own fallacious teachings: If they stopped believing there was no need for Paul to write them or persuade them to the Gospel. Why? Well, according to you, not contextually interpreted Scripture, they cannot be brought back again because they will bring Christ to open public shame.

All this is to show false teachings are always inconsistent, such as I’ve shown yours to be in this case.

I already addressed that here: https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4175535

If a person stops believing they no longer have the promise that their believing secures for them. They lose the benefit of Christ in justification (i.e. the Galatians).

And God decides how long he will try to bring a person back to believing before he hardens them in that unbelief. But once he does, it's over, they can't come back to repentance because God does not allow Christ to be put to open shame.

No inconsistencies here.

 

[Pisteuo]

Can you force yourself to believe something you do not want to believe?

Basic Christianity!101 nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws them, ( calls them out ). What that means is those ones" want to". Even if God's word is not available, the drawing of the Father is sufficient, why? Because the correct response to that Call is simply surrending our life to the caller. Turning, ( repentance ) then walking towards the caller in continual surrender. That's how God worked before the 1500's when God's word wasn't available to " believe."

 

[EleventhHour]

That's ridiculous!

The fact that you replied to @mailmandan well stated post with "ridiculous"

Is the true ridiculousness!!!

 

[EleventhHour]

Basic Christianity!101 nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws them, ( calls them out ). What that means is those ones" want to". Even if God's word is not available, the drawing of the Father is sufficient, why? Because the correct response to that Call is simply surrending our life to the caller. Turning, ( repentance ) then walking towards the caller in continual surrender. That's how God worked before the 1500's when God's word wasn't available to " believe."

A gospel with no Jesus ... you have replaced Him with "continual surrender"

Meaning .....I save myself

 

[Judges1318]

@Judges1318 No, you actually don’t believe John 6:40. The ones who are saved will also be resurrected, these two statements are inseparable facts that will take place in all who come to Christ.

Actually, it says all those who are believing will be resurrected to life.

"40and this is the will of Him who sent me, that every one who is beholding the Son, and is believing in him, may have life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day.’" - John 6:40 YLT

The promise is for the presently believing person. Not the one who never believed, or the fake believer, or the ex-believer. Which I know you agree with, it's just that you don't believe there is such a thing as an ex-believer. That's where your contention lies. Not in the fact that only believing people will be resurrected to life.

 

[EleventhHour]

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Remember he has transcended the need for scripture ...he relies on himself only and his continual surrender