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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I don’t know. I came in at the middle bi think you and DC were arguing with Stillness at the beginning. Since you and the creator of the thread were ok talking about it, I figured it was ok to continue
No, the birthday of the Church was the DAY OF PENTECOST, after His ascension, when the HOLY SPIRIT PERMANENTLY INDWELT ALL TRUE BELIEVERS at that particular time. YES the HOLY SPIRIT WAS ACTIVE in O.T. Times TOO.
Exodus 35:21 (HCSB)
21 Everyone whose heart was moved and whose spirit prompted him came and brought an offering to the LORD for the work on the tent of meeting, for all its services, and for the holy garments.
Psalm 51:11-12 (HCSB)
11 Do not banish me from Your presence or take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore the joy of Your salvation to me, and give me a willing spirit.
Isaiah 63:11 (ESV)
11 Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit,
I said NO SUCH THING, and I SEE NO SUCH THING in the Scriptures, that Paradise was a part of Hades. That is a Fallacy that was conceived in the minds of Men. GOD SAID in Mal. 3:6 THAT the HE DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore it always was a synonym for HEAVEN. The spirits HE went to proclaim the VICTORY THAT HE PROVIDED over Death, were the demons in the pit and the unrighteous in Hades. The FABLE that He moved the good part of Hades to Heaven as HE ASCENDED, NEVER HAS BEEN MORE THAN A FABLE.
O.T. Saints were those who believed GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.
Why is it so difficult to believe they had the same faith we have, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, and therefore their Destiny was the same as OUR Destiny, which is to go immediately in our human spirit to heaven to be with the LORD? OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, therefore SO WERE THE O.T. SAINTS. AND YES THEY ARE IN THE MESSIAH, TOO; and will be part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST, TOO.
Yes I am getting exercised, because it is a form of anti-Semitism to look down on the Jews of FAITH, as a lower form of spiritual Life.
Are you not looking down on them, and saying: Thank GOD I am part of the Church and NOT A Believing JEW?
His First ASSEMBLY or FOLD was the ISRAELITES, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
His Second ASSEMBLY or FOLD is the Church, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
WE WILL BE ONE FLOCK at the RAPTURE!
Ok, actually what you said “TO ME.
Quote Are YOU not looking down on the Jews...?
You did not say “they” you said “YOU” in addressing me about looking down on Jews
Do I in any way look down on Jews?
Answer... An EMPHATIC NO!
I said NO SUCH THING, and I SEE NO SUCH THING in the Scriptures, that Paradise was a part of Hades. That is a Fallacy that was conceived in the minds of Men. GOD SAID in Mal. 3:6 THAT the HE DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore it always was a synonym for HEAVEN. The spirits HE went to proclaim the VICTORY THAT HE PROVIDED over Death, were the demons in the pit and the unrighteous in Hades. The FABLE that He moved the good part of Hades to Heaven as HE ASCENDED, NEVER HAS BEEN MORE THAN A FABLE.
O.T. Saints were those who believed GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.
Why is it so difficult to believe they had the same faith we have, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, and therefore their Destiny was the same as OUR Destiny, which is to go immediately in our human spirit to heaven to be with the LORD? OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, therefore SO WERE THE O.T. SAINTS. AND YES THEY ARE IN THE MESSIAH, TOO; and will be part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST, TOO.
Yes I am getting exercised, because it is a form of anti-Semitism to look down on the Jews of FAITH, as a lower form of spiritual Life.
Are you not looking down on them, and saying: Thank GOD I am part of the Church and NOT A Believing JEW?
His First ASSEMBLY or FOLD was the ISRAELITES, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
His Second ASSEMBLY or FOLD is the Church, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
WE WILL BE ONE FLOCK at the RAPTURE!
Fifth paragraph second sentence. You asked me if I was looking down at Jews.
Answer... emphatically NO!
Do you see the words “neither” and “nor” there? Doesn’t that mean the two clauses “abandoned to Hades” and “see corruption” are speaking of two aspects, and are not strictly synonomous? That is, they are speaking about different, albeit related things.
In other words, Jesus soul was not left in hades, nor did His body see corruption. Two aspects of His resurrection
I could be wrong, but that is how I’ve always understood “neither...nor” clauses.
Let those wishing to discuss start a thread.
It's doing my head in.
It's leading me down the path of stopping here.
So are you REALLY READING what I wrote, or just skimming through it? You either have Selective memory or just plain forgetfulness.
I have already told you, I BELIEVE that there is ONLY ONE Part of HADES, and has always been that way. JUST A PLACE OF TORMENT FOR THE Unrighteous Human Spirits, and Possibly the PIT where the demons who tried to pollute the whole human race, so that Messiah could not Come from humans. Part of that VICTORY PARADE would have been the TRADITIONAL HE lead Captivity Captive. That is a common Roman expression where the conquering General Leads POWS in a Parade. IT DOES NOT SAY WHO THEY WERE, it could have been leaders of the REBELLIOUS ANGELS in the PIT, it could have been DEATH and HADES. or some inhabitants of Hades. BUT Such of A VICTORY PARADE WOULD HAVE BEEN WITNESSED BY THE FATHER, and the Parade was after HE Spiritually got to heaven, in my opinion. THE VICTORY BELONGS TO JESUS CHRIST.
Ephesians 4:8-10 (ASV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Luke 23:43 (ESV)
43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Now, HE ALSO HAD TO GO THERE in HIS body as OUR HIGH PRIEST, to Empty HIS BLOOD around the Base of the ALTAR in Heaven, so HE HAD TO WAIT FOR HIS BODY TO BE RESURRECTED, IN A GLORIFIED BODY. HIS resurrected body had not been there yet, WHICH IS WHY THESE VERSES:
John 20:16-17 (HCSB)
16 Jesus said, “Mary.” Turning around, she said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabbouni!”—which means “Teacher.”
17 “Don’t cling to Me,” Jesus told her, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father—to My God and your God.”
I see, that in terms of the weightier matter of doctrine like Ecclesiology, you thus far don't believe in him and so I assumed you are no longer attending the "Grace Community CHURCH".
Well, you based your conclusion on the definition and the not actual translation.
Lidell and Stott Greek Lexicon gave us the use in the N.T. and Ecll. as the Church p.435, not a literal meaning either applied to Samian Assembly, Spartan Assembly, Homeric Assembly etc. and so with
A New Greek to English Dictionary Dr. Donnegan 1832 p 452
in ecclesiastical
writers, the church, in its general
and particular sense
Well, the two references are of only a few citations that the "church" is the appropriate translation of the Greek Ekklesia.
BTW, you cited YLT, however, Young is not to be said a literal translation since a literal translation is the translation of the words in their original order. Young did not in many instances in his translation.
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UnderGrace
Guest
You could look at it the other way, if we did away with the KJV maybe we would have much less confusion.... just sayin.
There would confusion on this thread no matter what we did lol.You could look at it the other way, if we did away with the KJV maybe we would have much less confusion.... just sayin.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Not on this thread....NO confusion ...salvation is secure and is by Grace through faith apart from works!
NO, because the word it correctly translated ASSEMBLY, it is implying the FIRST ASSEMBLY, because the CHURCH DID NOT EXIST until the THE DAY OF PENTECOST. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH CHANGING THE WORD JESUS USED AND THAT IS ASSEMBLY. NO CONFUSION THAT WAY.