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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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But He told the thief that this day will you be with me in paradise
Paradise part of Hades
Acts 2:31
Just replace hell with Hades
I believe Jesus went to Hades for 3 days, not Gehenna, which is what most people think of when you say Hell
We think of hell as Gehenna. TheKJV translators translated Gehenna, Hades, The grave, etc as hell
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UnderGrace
Guest
Where do you think the Old Testament saints went until Christ came and gave them their inheritance?
Ok, so you believe Jesus and the thief went to paradise,correct?
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UnderGrace
Guest
I am deferring this problem/question to the originator of this thread .... .... is paradise part of hell?
The kingdom of heaven and all that comes with it didn’t come until Christ rose from the dead. After that they entered the heavenly kingdom with Christ and we entered the earthly kingdom of heaven in the spirit. All we are waiting for is the redemption of our bodies and this sin nature to be taken away.
To make it more clear, would you please ask him if paradise is part of Hades?
Never mind, @UnderGrace. DC’s position is crystal clear in this post.
I think we all agree that Jesus’ body went to the grave for three days and His life/soul went to Abraham’s bosom., which was paradise. That is the essential part, IMO
Why not use proper terminology? People need to know that Jesus went hell.Thumbs up means yes folks. KJV believes Jesus went to Paradise.
Read the book of Jonah, chapter two I think. It gives great detail of what Jesus did in hell.
Read 2 Samuel also, it is foreshadowing Christ through David.
Also read the story of Joseph interpretating the dreams. The baker and butler represent the saved and the lost in hell.
You can use hell as long as you are careful to define your terms. Because meanings of words change over time
For example, in the KJV, conversation has to do with one’s whole walk, their life. So we have to point that out when we teach about Holy conversation in KJV, because today, conversation means a talk or a discussion, but back then it meant the entirety of a persons life
And not everyone knows that the meaning of a word that has more than one possible meaning is determined by CONTEXT.
So when an evangelist or street preacher preaches about Jesus saving them, should he say that are being saved from Hades, Sheol, the Grave, Ghenna.... or HELL.You can use hell as long as you are careful to define your terms. Because meanings of words change over time
For example, in the KJV, conversation has to do with one’s whole walk, their life. So we have to point that out when we teach about Holy conversation in KJV, because today, conversation means a talk or a discussion, but back then it meant the entirety of a persons life
And not everyone knows that the meaning of a word that has more than one possible meaning is determined by CONTEXT.
Which one would carry more weight with the lost?
I said NO SUCH THING, and I SEE NO SUCH THING in the Scriptures, that Paradise was a part of Hades. That is a Fallacy that was conceived in the minds of Men. GOD SAID in Mal. 3:6 THAT the HE DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore it always was a synonym for HEAVEN. The spirits HE went to proclaim the VICTORY THAT HE PROVIDED over Death, were the demons in the pit and the unrighteous in Hades. The FABLE that He moved the good part of Hades to Heaven as HE ASCENDED, NEVER HAS BEEN MORE THAN A FABLE.
O.T. Saints were those who believed GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.
Why is it so difficult to believe they had the same faith we have, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, and therefore their Destiny was the same as OUR Destiny, which is to go immediately in our human spirit to heaven to be with the LORD? OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, therefore SO WERE THE O.T. SAINTS. AND YES THEY ARE IN THE MESSIAH, TOO; and will be part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST, TOO.
Yes I am getting exercised, because it is a form of anti-Semitism to look down on the Jews of FAITH, as a lower form of spiritual Life.
Are you not looking down on them, and saying: Thank GOD I am part of the Church and NOT A Believing JEW?
His First ASSEMBLY or FOLD was the ISRAELITES, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
His Second ASSEMBLY or FOLD is the Church, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
WE WILL BE ONE FLOCK at the RAPTURE!
Actually, the OT saints were looking forward to the King that was promised to them that would rule over them in an earthly kingdom.
Jeremiah 23:5 KJV Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
Luke 1 NLT 30 “Don’t be afraid, Mary,” the angel told her, “for you have found favor with God! 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David. 33 And he will reign over Israel[c] forever; his Kingdom will never end!”
And noticed the 11 apostles's last question to Jesus before he ascended to heaven was NOT "Lord, have you finally paid for all of our sins?"
Instead they asked
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Just because I was discipled by Dr. John MacArthur, does not mean I agree with everything he teaches.
Matthew 16:18 (Young's Literal Translation)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
I came to the conclusion ASSEMBLY was the correct Translation after reading this definition in the
NASB Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
When the bible was first translated into ENGLISH, the SUBSTITUTION of the word CHURCH had already been Made.
HOWEVER, they did not Put it in ITALICS.
It confuses to people to think the believing JEWS that believed GOD would provide a Messiah, that they are a LOWER CLASS of Human Spiritual Beings. That is a form of anti-Semitism. It forces people to NOT consider Jewish believers are PART OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, and in doing so, you will make GOD A LIAR:
Isaiah 54:5 (HCSB)
5 Indeed, your husband is your Maker— His name is Yahweh of Hosts— and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; He is called the God of all the earth.
Isaiah 62:5 (HCSB)
5 For as a young man marries a young woman, so your sons will marry you; and as a groom rejoices over ⌊his⌋ bride, so your God will rejoice over you.
Believing in Israel during the O.T. had the SAME KIND OF FAITH WE DO.
O.T. Saints were those who believed GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.
That is the FAITH OF ABRAHAM.
His First ASSEMBLY or FOLD was the ISRAELITES, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
His Second ASSEMBLY or FOLD is the Church, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
They are CO-EQUALLY Part of the Bride of Christ as WE ARE.
Your other question in both Luke 16:23 and in Matthew 16:18:
Transliterated Word: hadês
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
So when an evangelist or street preacher preaches about Jesus saving them, should he say that are being saved from Hades, Sheol, the Grave, Ghenna.... or HELL.
Which one would carry more weight with the lost?
Just say hell, and the hearer will understand you as talking about Gehenna, which carries by far the most weight.
But I wouldn’t tell them Jesus went to hell, because they’ll think you mean Jesus went to Gehenna, and that might be more distracting than productive
I said NO SUCH THING, and I SEE NO SUCH THING in the Scriptures, that Paradise was a part of Hades. That is a Fallacy that was conceived in the minds of Men. GOD SAID in Mal. 3:6 THAT the HE DOES NOT CHANGE, therefore it always was a synonym for HEAVEN. The spirits HE went to proclaim the VICTORY THAT HE PROVIDED over Death, were the demons in the pit and the unrighteous in Hades. The FABLE that He moved the good part of Hades to Heaven as HE ASCENDED, NEVER HAS BEEN MORE THAN A FABLE.
O.T. Saints were those who believed GOD WOULD SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR THEIR SINS.
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD DID SEND A MESSIAH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.
Why is it so difficult to believe they had the same faith we have, THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, and therefore their Destiny was the same as OUR Destiny, which is to go immediately in our human spirit to heaven to be with the LORD? OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, therefore SO WERE THE O.T. SAINTS. AND YES THEY ARE IN THE MESSIAH, TOO; and will be part of the BRIDE OF CHRIST, TOO.
Yes I am getting exercised, because it is a form of anti-Semitism to look down on the Jews of FAITH, as a lower form of spiritual Life.
Are you not looking down on them, and saying: Thank GOD I am part of the Church and NOT A Believing JEW?
His First ASSEMBLY or FOLD was the ISRAELITES, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
His Second ASSEMBLY or FOLD is the Church, who BELIEVED IN HIM in their hearts.
WE WILL BE ONE FLOCK at the RAPTURE!
I didn’t say you said that. I was replying to KJV. Check who I was replying to.
Secondly, I take offense to you calling me antisemite.
lOOK at my screen name. Do you have ANY IDEA who Macabeus was? Google it and then tell me I am anti Semite.
I fervently love the Jews. My position has nothing to do with antisemitism.
Thirdly, if Jesus meant paradise when He said Hades, then does that mean He went to heaven with the thief on the cross BEFORE He was resurrected? This day you will be with me in paradise, He said