Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Are we not saved unto good works?

Yes, NOT BY GOOD WORKS.

notice the huge difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternal Security/OSAS is the same thing.

There is another term for it, It is called ETERNAL LIFE, when will you repent and believe?

There is probably some kind of negative attributes that have come to haunt the concept of OSAS, so the powers that be, stopped using OSAS and started using ES instead. As far as I am concerned they are the same doctrine.

Well it is a good thing you are not an authority then, You continue to be blind because "in your opinion"

 

[benhur]

you resist the idea that we are saved not of works, but of grace through faith. and by works, no man will be saved.

You somehow think when you go to God God is going to look at you and say, wow, you really straightened up. forget all those sins you have committed, you did so many great works, I will let you in. You have earned it.

the sad part. God will not say that.. now will he allow you or anyone else in based on how good you are. or how many works you did.

If I believe and have been baptized of the HS, what is it to you that I also am engaged in good works. Is Jesus going to say, you didn't need to be engaged in good works, therefore I will not give you eternal life, even though you believed and were baptized of the HS.
Is that how it works?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not work to earn my salvation, I could not possibly do enough good works to earn salvation. But what I do is I try to listen to the promptings of the HS and do the works that I was saved unto to do. Do you not do the same? That is all I am talking about.

So you agree with me that once we are saved, we are secure in Christ, because we can never be good enough to earn salvation. Since this is FACT (and we both agree) It is GOD who must keep us, Not only keep us from falling (which he promised he would) but keep us in the straight and narrow (which he also promised he would do)

then why are you arguing for works?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I believe and have been baptized of the HS, what is it to you that I also am engaged in good works. Is Jesus going to say, you didn't need to be engaged in good works, therefore I will not give you eternal life, even though you believed and were baptized of the HS.
Is that how it works?

Just because one says they were baptised by the spirit does not make it so.

Jesus made it clear. there will be many in that day that say they did all these works in Jesus name, Yet jesus will say depart. why?

He never knew them.

You do not say you never knew someone to someone you adopted and kept in your family for years then had to disown because they did not obey you .

 

[TruthTalk]

And your skills allow you to read and interpret correctly? Good luck with that. You pretty much rely on decon and he is the one that said 90% of Christians follow the wrong Jesus. Wow, geesh, wow!!!!!

And talk about boasting!

Pure nonsense, like chasing the wind. Nobody here believes your fake gospel and decon is a friend of mine, he interprets the gospel properly and you do not. I went back and looked at all of your post for 140 pages and you did not receive one "Like Sticker" not one. Why is that true, because no one believes your garbage, pure ego driven garbage.

140 pages and not one "Like Sticker" amazing, go back to Sunday School.

 

[benhur]

There is another term for it, It is called ETERNAL LIFE, when will you repent and believe?



Well it is a good thing you are not an authority then, You continue to be blind because "in your opinion"

Sorry, ETERNAL LIFE does not equal the doctrines of OSAS or ES.

 

[benhur]

Yes, NOT BY GOOD WORKS.

notice the huge difference.

Fine, I know it is a fine line, but if you do not the works that you are saved unto, you will not be saved. Right?

 

[benhur]

Pure nonsense, like chasing the wind. No body here believes your fake gospel and decon is a friend of mine, he interprets the gospel properly and you do not. I went back and looked at all of your post for 140 pages and you did not receive one "Like Sticker" not one. Why is that true, because no one believes your garbage, pure ego driven garbage.

Go back to Sunday School.

Why go back to Sunday School? Since 90% of Christians teach the wrong Jesus, I will just get much of the same wrong Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, ETERNAL LIFE does not equal the doctrines of OSAS or ES.

well thanks for you opinion, But being told HAVE ETERNAL LIFE is security, Now if God said I had conditional life, like your preaching, then I would agree with you, But he said eternal. Eternal means forever. period

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fine, I know it is a fine line, but if you do not the works that you are saved unto, you will not be saved. Right?

the question is do you trust god or not.

Only if you do not trust God will you not do good works.

Stop focusing on your performance (works) and start focusing on God.

You rwork will fail you (it will never add up ) God never will

 

[TruthTalk]

Eternal Security/OSAS is the same thing. (No it is not). There is probably some kind of negative attributes that have come to haunt the concept of OSAS, so the powers that be, stopped using OSAS and started using ES instead. As far as I am concerned they are the same doctrine.

Your are wrong as usual, OSAS acronym has been used for a long time as a "straw man" argument for people who believe you can lose your eternal salvation, like you do.

To mix OSAS with the doctrine of "eternal security" shows just how simple you really are. God help the people who fall for your fake gospel.

 

[benhur]

Just because one says they were baptised by the spirit does not make it so.

Jesus made it clear. there will be many in that day that say they did all these works in Jesus name, Yet jesus will say depart. why?

He never knew them.

You do not say you never knew someone to someone you adopted and kept in your family for years then had to disown because they did not obey you .

That kind of reasoning relates to you also. If you were never really baptized of the HS, Jesus could say without lying, I never knew you, and anyone else that said they were baptized of the HS but were not.

Now we have to discuss how a person knows for sure they were baptized of the HS. For instance for the insane reason that I believe that good works is a part of the salvation process, you can declare that I have not been baptized of the HS. Are you right, or are you wrong? I would not get troubled by the idea that I love God and so I am inclined towards good works to trouble you so bad as to make you think that I have not been baptized of the HS.

Christians are all over the place about how one is saved. Is there 1 group of 5 billion Christians on the earth today that have actually been baptized of the HS and all the rest are in trouble? That sounds like what the Mormons say.

So who is the true HS policeman that can know for a surety that one has actually been baptized of the HS. Talk a bout ES or OSAS. If you have not really been born of the HS all of those doctrines are irrelevant.

 

[TruthTalk]

I do not work to earn my salvation, I go to God who is my abbah father (who is not a spirit of fear) and confess my sins to him, Not to continue to be called his son, But because I am his son.

You do realise you are really no different than the men who crucified christ don,t you? You have the same type of performance based salvation that Jesus condemned, and why they crucified him to begin with.

benhur is mixing his works with grace. He has raised himself up just like the Pharisees and created a false gospel of rules, do this don't do that. He is walking north on an ice sheet that is flowing south and soon he will fall into the sea with no one to help, a pity.

He is going the wrong way.

 

[BillG]

Well, I see you are making headway, forgiveness sometime takes time. And your salvation is not interupted for the lack of forgiveness, until you finally will not forgive. When you finally deny the promptings of the HS and refuse to forgive, your sins will finally not be forgiven of you. If you have such a mind as to not forgive, you will not be able to live with God and Jesus. They have forgiven all, you must be able to also, or no seat at their table.

Firstly I say that you have done across as saying they if you do not forgive you lose salvation, regardless.

I get the impression that if I committed one sin but died before I repented or someone who offended me like my sexual abuser and died before I forgave then I would lose my salvation.

In fact I'm sure in one conversation I asked you if I died on the first night without forgiving him then I would lose my salvation and you said yes I would.

Yet the first part of your second sentence does not come across like that.

I think the problem with what you are saying above is that you feel that the HS at some point says enough, your out.

If that were the case then neither you or I could place a time limit on it.
If that is the case then we cannot judge when someone has lost their salvation.

With regards to the seat at the table I disagree with you here.
It has nothing to do with us forgiving others and everything to do with faith in Jesus.
True genuine faith and not an easy meal ticket faith.

Isaiah 55:1-3
Invitation to the Lord’s Salvation
1 “Is anyone thirsty?
Come and drink—
even if you have no money!
Come, take your choice of wine or milk—
it’s all free!
2 Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?
Why pay for food that does you no good?
Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.
You will enjoy the finest food.
3 “Come to me with your ears wide open.
Listen, and you will find life.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you.
I will give you all the unfailing love I promised to David.


John 6:28-29
28 They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:32-40
32 Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, Moses didn’t give you bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.33 The true bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “give us that bread every day.”
35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 7:37-39
Jesus Promises Living Water
37 On the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood and shouted to the crowds, “Anyone who is thirsty may come to me!38 Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’ ”39 (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

 

[BillG]

I do not work to earn my salvation, I could not possibly do enough good works to earn salvation. But what I do is I try to listen to the promptings of the HS and do the works that I was saved unto to do. Do you not do the same? That is all I am talking about.

So to me here is an issue.

You say you try to listen to the promoting of the HS, that's not the issue.
So if you have a prompting but do not act before you die then have you lost your salvation.?

You come across as saying at the very least they others do.

 

[benhur]

Your are wrong as usual, OSAS acronym has been used for a long time as a "straw man" argument for people who believe you can lose your eternal salvation, like you do.

To mix OSAS with the doctrine of "eternal security" shows just how simple you really are. God help the people who fall for your fake gospel.

So you think there is a difference between OSAS and ES. You would have a fight with all those Christians that have OSAS teeshirts and are proud to have been saved.

 

[benhur]

So to me here is an issue.

You say you try to listen to the promoting of the HS, that's not the issue.
So if you have a prompting but do not act before you die then have you lost your salvation.?

You come across as saying at the very least they others do.

We will not lose our salvation unless you finally come to a point that you deny all the promptings of the HS, and then you will lose your salvation.

If you have a good mind toward God and you are trying to listen, but you do not hear every prompting, this is where the grace of Jesus will make it all right and the imputing of the righteousness of Jesus will be good for us. But there can come a time when a Christian who thinks they were baptized of the HS, gives up on Jesus and refuses to hear the promptings of the HS and this lead to the losing of ones salvation. Jesus will not force a person to have eternal life.

 

[TruthTalk]

Firstly I say that you have done across as saying they if you do not forgive you lose salvation, regardless.

I get the impression that if I committed one sin but died before I repented or someone who offended me like my sexual abuser and died before I forgave then I would lose my salvation.

In fact I'm sure in one conversation I asked you if I died on the first night without forgiving him then I would lose my salvation and you said yes I would.

Yet the first part of your second sentence does not come across like that.

I think the problem with what you are saying above is that you feel that the HS at some point says enough, your out.

If that were the case then neither you or I could place a time limit on it.
If that is the case then we cannot judge when someone has lost their salvation.

With regards to the seat at the table I disagree with you here.
It has nothing to do with us forgiving others and everything to do with faith in Jesus.
True genuine faith and not an easy meal ticket faith.

Isaiah 55:1-3
Invitation to the Lord’s Salvation
1 “Is anyone thirsty?
Come and drink—
even if you have no money!
Come, take your choice of wine or milk—
it’s all free!
2 Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?
Why pay for food that does you no good?
Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.
You will enjoy the finest food.
3 “Come to me with your ears wide open.
Listen, and you will find life.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you.
I will give you all the unfailing love I promised to David.


John 6:28-29
28 They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:32-40
32 Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, Moses didn’t give you bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.33 The true bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “give us that bread every day.”
35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me.37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 7:37-39
Jesus Promises Living Water
37 On the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood and shouted to the crowds, “Anyone who is thirsty may come to me!38 Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’ ”39 (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

benhur's gospel is so far astray from the truth. He say's if we do not forgive God will take back his gift of salvation? Nonsense, the bible teaches there is only "one" unforgivable sin. He is a blind guide leading the blind and you know where that leads. His gospel is pure fiction.

 

[BillG]

We will not lose our salvation unless you finally come to a point that you deny all the promptings of the HS, and then you will lose your salvation.

If you have a good mind toward God and you are trying to listen, but you do not hear every prompting, this is where the grace of Jesus will make it all right and the imputing of the righteousness of Jesus will be good for us. But there can come a time when a Christian who thinks they were baptized of the HS, gives up on Jesus and refuses to hear the promptings of the HS and this lead to the losing of ones salvation. Jesus will not force a person to have eternal life.

What do you mean by "Gives up on Jesus?