Not By Works

[stonesoffire]

I think with regards to the new creation.
It has two parts.

Tell them that they are a new creation when birthed.

Then disciple them. To me that's teaching them.

At birth I would not say that they know they are changed but that they know something has happened.

And that is that they are now a New Creation.
This is then followed by discipleship.

I think I said that Bill in a former post. I did know though that I wanted to tell everyone I met to turn to God. That was for a time. Then the baptism of Holy Spirit. Was a new level.

Then persecution. A barrage of lies from the enemy, and having to leave a church to hear truth.

Holy Spirit is in charge maybe moreso than we realize. We are His workmanship....created for good works. They won't all be the same works, but the same body produces.

And I know you know these things.

 

[BillG]

I think I said that Bill in a former post. I did know though that I wanted to tell everyone I met to turn to God. That was for a time. Then the baptism of Holy Spirit. Was a new level.

Then persecution. A barrage of lies from the enemy, and having to leave a church to hear truth.

Holy Spirit is in charge maybe moreso than we realize. We are His workmanship....created for good works. They won't all be the same works, but the same body produces.

And I know you know these things.

I have to be honest here and as I am if anyone responds please do so based on what I am about to say.
I have no idea what baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is or means.
I truly dont.

I know when I believed in Jesus I received the Holy Spirit in me.

I hear people say "Be filled up with the Holy Spirit"

Every day when I wake up I just ask "Jesus help me to be like you"

 

[stonesoffire]

I have to be honest here and as I am if anyone responds please do so based on what I am about to say.
I have no idea what baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is or means.
I truly dont.

I know when I believed in Jesus I received the Holy Spirit in me.

I hear people say "Be filled up with the Holy Spirit"

Every day when I wake up I just ask "Jesus help me to be like you"

I can only tell you what I believe from scripture and it always makes anger. Can't help it. There is the Spirit of Christ which I believe happens with conversion. And I see this happening to the disciples after they all abandoned Jesus and proved they didn't believe He would rise again. Or that He was God. They are repentant and humbled and Jesus restores them, breathes on them and that is conversion. He tells them then to wait for the power.

I didn't know what I was getting when baptized in Spirit, but I just raised my hands to heaven and asked Holy Spirit to fill me. I actually felt a wind come into me. Not all have the same experience.

Then worship...it filled my whole being. I still have that. Then the gifts.

You may well have received the baptism of Holy Spirit. You started to prophesy twice that I know of on this thread.

Some need the laying on of hands to have the release of the Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to be honest here and as I am if anyone responds please do so based on what I am about to say.
I have no idea what baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is or means.
I truly dont.

I know when I believed in Jesus I received the Holy Spirit in me.

I hear people say "Be filled up with the Holy Spirit"

Every day when I wake up I just ask "Jesus help me to be like you"

1 cor 12/ (baptized in christ)

rom 6 (baptized again in christ, and his death)

John the Baptist said he will baptise you with the HS and fire. Baptism f the spirit being the means by which God separates the wheat (saved) (baptism of the spirit) from the chaff (unsaved) the chaff he will burn with an unquenchable fire (baptism in fire)

Titus 3: 5, the washing and renewal of the HS, washing being the effects of baptism of the spirit.

col 2, The spiritual circumcision done without hands

It is just the act of God working on our souls to make us children of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Wouldn't asking the Lord for help to be like Him daily, be putting on the new man? We are then reminded of what happened.

Theres another scripture that I think of and believe it's in James. That we look as into a mirror and then leave, promptly forgetting who and what we saw.

We are already like Him in our spirit. SSeeing Him daily, or having a revelation of Him on a daily basis is what changes us into His image. Is what scripture says.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Wouldn't asking the Lord for help to be like Him daily, be putting on the new man? We are then reminded of what happened.

Theres another scripture that I think of and believe it's in James. That we look as into a mirror and then leave, promptly forgetting who and what we saw.

We are already like Him in our spirit. SSeeing Him daily, or having a revelation of Him on a daily basis is what changes us into His image. Is what scripture says.

there are many scriptures of growth....

this is what bill is speaking of i believe

i know in life i still have room to grow and to learn


but we examine ourselfs
and we do grow in wisdom
and in faith

but this growth isnt of ourself


2 Peter 3:18
“But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”


(and ephesians 4)

 

[stonesoffire]

1 cor 12/ (baptized in christ)

rom 6 (baptized again in christ, and his death)

John the Baptist said he will baptise you with the HS and fire. Baptism f the spirit being the means by which God separates the wheat (saved) (baptism of the spirit) from the chaff (unsaved) the chaff he will burn with an unquenchable fire (baptism in fire)

Titus 3: 5, the washing and renewal of the HS, washing being the effects of baptism of the spirit.

col 2, The spiritual circumcision done without hands

It is just the act of God working on our souls to make us children of God.

I never heard that before about the wheat and chaff. That's good! Thanks!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Dcon...I am amazed at how many times the children of Israel turned away from God and served other gods, and yet God still kept an outstretched arm to them time and time again ...The OT is teaching me how much God truly loves us, never giving up on us, being offered so many chances to return to Him...Reading the OT has brought me to tears many times, reminding myself how easy it can be to forget God when times are good...The OT is a great reminder that God should come first in everything, He is love, without Him we are nothing...xox...

Amen Rose....David should have died under the law yet he was forgiven, spared, still blessed by God and the innocent son of David took his place in death....this is a massive picture of Jesus as the Son of David paying the price for murder and adultry....grace is woven throughout the OT.....

 

[BillG]

I can only tell you what I believe from scripture and it always makes anger. Can't help it. There is the Spirit of Christ which I believe happens with conversion. And I see this happening to the disciples after they all abandoned Jesus and proved they didn't believe He would rise again. Or that He was God. They are repentant and humbled and Jesus restores them, breathes on them and that is conversion. He tells them then to wait for the power.

I didn't know what I was getting when baptized in Spirit, but I just raised my hands to heaven and asked Holy Spirit to fill me. I actually felt a wind come into me. Not all have the same experience.

Then worship...it filled my whole being. I still have that. Then the gifts.

You may well have received the baptism of Holy Spirit. You started to prophesy twice that I know of on this thread.

Some need the laying on of hands to have the release of the Spirit.

I think the issue for me is that there seems to be and kind of supernatural about it. You say i started prophecy twice and we talked about it. If you remember in said that I did not identify with it.
So what ever I said I just said. I wasn't asking to be baptised in the Spirit to say what I said.

I have been in situations when I have no idea what to say or do, so I just pray Holy Spirit help me here.

So I think I struggle with is that it's supernatural when in fact it's natural. Natural as children of the Father

 

[BillG]

Then I find people that I know who fell they are not Baptised in the Holy Spirit because nothing magical has happened.
But drill down you can see the Holy Spirit working in them and using them beyond their comfort zone.

The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus, then he went and did great things. Jesus said

John 5:19
19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

But to me Jesus is not looking for a top up.

Just doing the Fathers business.

 

[dcontroversal]

Those who believe and are saved: "Jesus saved me!"

Those who are on probation: "No he did not!!!"

Amen to this for sure...all by faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not arguing and those who are born of God are new creations in Christ and bear fruit. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

Amen.....even one (1) cup of cold water will not go unnoticed and or unrewarded....and....all genuine, saved believers have already done the works of the Heavenly Father......!

 

[dcontroversal]

This is very dangerous. If our FAITH is not in the trustworthyness of God., who said WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Then how can we claim to have faith at all? What is it in? John said he wrote his words so we may KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.and by this FACT, we can continue to trust him.

Trust and faith comes from the HOPE of eternal life. WHich God, who can not lie, promised before time began.,

If we do not understand our security in christ, to know we are saved eternally by Gods promise. We have no root which to plant ourselves into. If we are not attached to the vine, we will not produce fruit. We may do these good deeds, and THINK we are producing fruit. But it is not real fruit, it is the fruit of the pharisee, which is tainted, rotten, not useful for anything.

We do not plant the wheat, God plants it, again, you are to focused on yourself. And works, and not focused on God. That is religion, and not grace.

All workers for and Pharisees/Lawyers toss Jesus under the bus and promote self.....as evidenced by the plenteous in number that gets cast from the presence of Jesus and by the dogma of most religions that name Jesus...very few, as in the minority, point 100% to Jesus and his work on our behalf!

 

[dcontroversal]

There are baby trees. And mature trees, And even some mature trees have off years where they do not bear much fruit. (I had an apple tree this year that always produces well, this year, we have very few apples and they were eaten by the squirels befor they had time to ripen) there is a reason God used things we can see as an examples of spiritual truths, what is sad is when people do not see them for what they are, and what is pictured.

Fruit inspectors are out worried about how much fruit, and need to be focused on people they can serve, so they can bear fruit themselves.

Amen.....and within the ranks of trees we find the following.....

a. Young trees that take years to bear..even one piece of fruit
b. Young trees that bear an abundance
c. Mature trees that bear every gambit from one piece to branches breaking and even years where nothing is produced due to drought, late freezes, disease, insects etc.
d. Old trees that produce an abundance
e. Old trees that wane in their production
f. Old trees that bore an abundance and eventually quit producing

etc....What many workers for cannot grasp...fruit produced by a saved child of God and by the Spirit of God is ETERNALLY RECORDED regardless of time frame produced.....like David, Solomon etc.....in their youth they produced and as they aged their production faltered due to personal struggles and sin yet they remained saved....

Now watch how many crawl out and say they were not saved even though David speaks of it in the present tense....

 

[dcontroversal]

So if Jesus comes back 1000 years from now you will be alive?

Give it up dude..

TYhe only people who have to worry about what happens when Jesus returns are those who have not believed in the only Name of the son of God, the christ child. The savior. For as John said, they are condemned ALREADY (they have always been and still are in a state of condemnation)

works have nothing to do with it..

We need to make ourself a grapevine......emphasis upon WE NEED TO MAKE OURSELF (SIC) ..........that statement reeks of ignorance.....we are PLACED INTO THE VINE BY CHRIST DIA SALVATION.......it is HIS WORK THROUGH US as a living sacrifice.........

 

[dcontroversal]

So I'M supposed to muster up the necessary faith?

How on Earth can that not be a works for Salvation?

Amen......very deceitful and the tragic part...I see a few new to the faith being sucked in by this false dogma that is not of God......!

 

[dcontroversal]

We become the sons of God. The new man is instantaneous. We do have an enemy in this world that continually lies. Just like in the beginning. Hath God said. Don't be his helper.

Right now are we the sons of God and it does not yet appear what we shall be <----John

 

[Rosemaryx]

Amen Rose....David should have died under the law yet he was forgiven, spared, still blessed by God and the innocent son of David took his place in death....this is a massive picture of Jesus as the Son of David paying the price for murder and adultry....grace is woven throughout the OT.....

Wow...I never picked that up about the death of Davids baby, that tells me that Gods word is a book that we can never stop learning from ...

I am about to start Job tomorrow, I want to take my time in that as I know there are many many things in there, from losses to gains, friendships, faithfulness, and so much more...Just finished Ester, I really enjoyed that, God not mentioned once, yet as I read I see Him all over it, and what come to mind at the end of it was What people intend for evil, God will make good ...xox...

 

[BillG]

We need to make ourself a grapevine......emphasis upon WE NEED TO MAKE OURSELF (SIC) ..........that statement reeks of ignorance.....we are PLACED INTO THE VINE BY CHRIST DIA SALVATION.......it is HIS WORK THROUGH US as a living sacrifice.........

Who is the vinedresser? I have as much chance attaching myself to the vine as I have as winning the lottery. And I don't do the lottery.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to be honest here and as I am if anyone responds please do so based on what I am about to say.
I have no idea what baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is or means.
I truly dont.

I know when I believed in Jesus I received the Holy Spirit in me.

I hear people say "Be filled up with the Holy Spirit"

Every day when I wake up I just ask "Jesus help me to be like you"

Ephesians 5:18-21 Be filled (continually filled-->present passive imperative form of verb) with the spirit.....shows continual action, passive aspect shows what has caused it and the following subordinant clauses is the evidence of....speaking to yourself in Psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart, giving thanks for all things, submitting to one another in all things etc....