Not By Works

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Budman said:
Be it one sin a day, or a thousand, a single sin attributed to us will damn us. That's why I have such a problem with self-righteous hypocrites who love to thunder down judgment on people for sinning, when they are just as guilty of doing the same.
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You are just taking the place of an accuser with no evidence, which is liable slander.
Do you not understand the principle of defamation of character?

All you are claiming is your own experience is everyones experience. The bible tells me
simply this is not true. I know people vary an awfully large amounts, and struggle with
very different issues. Our ministry in Christ is to love, serve and support, not condemn,
judge and bring others down.

Addressing sinful behaviour is needed not to make people feel small, but to save them
and set them free into a life of love and grace and freedom. Sin destroys, kills people.
 
Macabeus said:
Saying "all apples with worms are rotten" without inspecting a single apple or a collection of apples is not fruit inspection :ROFL: Have a nice day. God bless you
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But, when you stated fruits are the evidence of salvation, you are indeed inspecting.

I sure wish you didn't have to go. I'm having such fun! :D
 
FollowHisSteps said:
All you are claiming is your own experience is everyones experience.
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Um, wrong. When I say I sin, and when I say you sin, I am stating a Biblical fact.

Be they one, five, fifty, or a hundred sins a day..

FollowHisSteps said:
Addressing sinful behaviour is needed not to make people feel small, but to save them and set them free into a life of love and grace and freedom. Sin destroys, kills people.
Click to expand...

So does self-righteousness.

Matthew 7:22-23
 
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eternally-grateful dear friend can you start that calvinism thread? i got some questions i want to ask them.

mostly like:
why does God open His arms for rebellious people of israel and say things like i was ready to be seeked by you? if really the only reason they arent seeking is because God didnt give them the irresistable grace for it?

i also want to know is there any point in the bible where God predestinates something and it doesnt come to pass because of human disobedience? can it happen?
 
:(

I was hoping people would not bite This thread the last two days has been a laughing stock. It is a sad representation of what the purpose of this thread was used for. I pray if people want to bciker like kids they go open another thread and take this fight elsewhere. Because this is pathetic. Ya have one guy who has said twice now he was leaving, another guy who has been banned twice already, and they are doing what they do. And what they want to do is disrupt this thread and the word of God. And discredit good godly people.

Sorry for my rant, but it is just sad
 
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Melach said:
eternally-grateful dear friend can you start that calvinism thread? i got some questions i want to ask them.

mostly like:
why does God open His arms for rebellious people of israel and say things like i was ready to be seeked by you? if really the only reason they arent seeking is because God didnt give them the irresistable grace for it?

i also want to know is there any point in the bible where God predestinates something and it doesnt come to pass because of human disobedience? can it happen?
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Hey bro, do you know how to look up threads or start one? If not maybe I will look for one and respond to bring it back to the top.

I am not a real fan of those threads because you think it gets bad in here, those threads get unbearable. Many of the people I have on ignore are there because of their attitude in those threads. I am also not calvinist so your better off going to talk to one of them. .
 
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Melach said:
eternally-grateful dear friend can you start that calvinism thread? i got some questions i want to ask them.

mostly like:
why does God open His arms for rebellious people of israel and say things like i was ready to be seeked by you? if really the only reason they arent seeking is because God didnt give them the irresistable grace for it?

i also want to know is there any point in the bible where God predestinates something and it doesnt come to pass because of human disobedience? can it happen?
Click to expand...

Respectfully, can't you yourself start one?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Hey bro, do you know how to look up threads or start one? If not maybe I will look for one and respond to bring it back to the top.

I am not a real fan of those threads because you think it gets bad in here, those threads get unbearable. Many of the people I have on ignore are there because of their attitude in those threads. I am also not calvinist so your better off going to talk to one of them. .
Click to expand...
thank you

i dont want to start a thread i dont really know how to host one or what to say. i got nothing to offer

i have read their arguments the calvinists they sound good and logical but for all the verses they quote my mind is brought back to jeremiah and how i think God was disappointed with israel, but how can it be if the reason was the lack of grace given? just doesnt click in my spirit.
 
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Melach said:
thank you

i dont want to start a thread i dont really know how to host one or what to say. i got nothing to offer

i have read their arguments the calvinists they sound good and logical but for all the verses they quote my mind is brought back to jeremiah and how i think God was disappointed with israel, but how can it be if the reason was the lack of grace given? just doesnt click in my spirit.
Click to expand...

I'll start the thread if you like. :)
 
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Budman said:
Um, wrong. When I say I sin, and when I say you sin, I am stating a Biblical fact.
Be they one, five, fifty, or a hundred sins a day..
So does self-righteousness.
Matthew 7:22-23
Click to expand...

Self righteousness is not the same as sin.
Justifying oneself as a sinner is deadly, because it is excusing sin.
The pharisees failed because they did not do what they preached by sinning.

The principle being preached through scripture is do not sin.
If one believes sin is justifiable, or excused because it cannot be avoided,
one has just denied the gospel.

Some argue original sin is always with us and cannot be resolved until we meet
the Lord. But then how was John the Baptist full of the Spirit and holy and pure?

Original sin is founded in our lack of communion with God at birth.
This is the position I hold, you may hold a different one.

Being righteous is only possible in communion with Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit.
The question is though you would describe this as hypocrisy and untrue. But it makes perfect
sense to me and is what the apostles were driving at. God bless you.
 
Melach said:
i have been listening to many sermons on the internet.

eternal security pastors preach just like not-eternal security pastors against sin and cry out for people to repent. not only did i preach a false gospel i have been falsely accusing the brethren how dare i. the devil is the accuser.

my notes: A repents. B repents. A says God gave me grace to do it. B says I just chose to repent.

God gets glory in A does not get glory in B. i believe thats correct. i dont know what i am yet. but i have looked into it. not even anything created can separate the elect from God's love st.paul said.

what then is the purpose of the remain in me dont be deiceived and if ye continue verses? what one pastor said in the sermon was that its to wake up God's people to self-examine, and to rattle the fake believers in churches and its the means by which God keeps His people.

im satisfied with his answer because it harmonizes all the eternal life, God will keep, and all the finality of salvation verses to the warning verses.

what do you think brethren? can i have your opinion on what i have said? i ask in love and not to spite or argue.
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Hello brother may I ask you to expand your question just a tad?

It sounds to me that you are asking why hearers of the word are encouraged to not be decieved if we are in fact gifted (not rewarded with) eternal life and assurance in Him and not ourselves by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as our savior.



Would you like to bring up the specific verses which trouble you in any way brother?


Maybe I can post one or two that comes to mind as an example?

colossians 1



18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;



the if we continue here is descriptive of us who have been persuaded, repented from unbelief... been born again and made new with Him working in us


it is not to say if you do not continue you lose... but those who do continue He Hath reconciled already

Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I believe we can say that "they" are tares and "we" who trust are wheat

we ought to examine ourselfs according to His word

lean not on our own understanding or our works

have faith in Him who can save us

it is good while we still lack assurance to examine ourself..... "have I been born again?"

but many often use scripture and impute extra meaning to it...

the parable of the sower is a wonderful parable to demonstrate the different effects of the seed (the truth... Gods Word) has on the hearts of man (the soil)

or the parable of of the true vines
many will say it is speaking of the loss of salvation to believers

when it is not at all

(bump)

hope my post was not all over the place I am at work bro


may God bless you with exactly what He wants you to see
OneOfHis said:
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit

"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"


and branches that do not bare fruit

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"

this is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

dont you understand when this is being said?

what judas already did and what was about to happen?


but this has NOTHING to do with the loss of salvation to a saved believer


and MUCH to do with two separate types of men in the same congregation of "believers" (in Him)
Click to expand...
 
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FollowHisSteps said:
You are just taking the place of an accuser with no evidence, which is liable slander.
Do you not understand the principle of defamation of character?

All you are claiming is your own experience is everyones experience. The bible tells me
simply this is not true. I know people vary an awfully large amounts, and struggle with
very different issues. Our ministry in Christ is to love, serve and support, not condemn,
judge and bring others down.

Addressing sinful behaviour is needed not to make people feel small, but to save them
and set them free into a life of love and grace and freedom. Sin destroys, kills people.
Click to expand...

this is what I mean, right here-

when you ignore the actual Biblical definition of sin, and just construct your own, when you see a 100% true statement about how sin, no matter how much, or what kind, makes us unfit for the Kingdom, you reject this truth, hiding it under the " false accusation " banner, so you can just go on believing what you do.....

what budman said here is 10000% true, whether you accept it or not.
 
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gb9 said:
this is what I mean, right here-

when you ignore the actual Biblical definition of sin, and just construct your own, when you see a 100% true statement about how sin, no matter how much, or what kind, makes us unfit for the Kingdom, you reject this truth, hiding it under the " false accusation " banner, so you can just go on believing what you do.....

what budman said here is 10000% true, whether you accept it or not.
Click to expand...

As I said yesterday, missing the mark is about hitting a defined target like using an arrow, or spear or
sling shot.

By definition the target is clear and obvious. And because the target is clear and obvious it is easy to
see how you have missed it. This is Gods definition of what sin is, which you kept on repeating to me
in the past. Now I had previously assumed this was like a mark of overall perfection etc. in general.
But now I understand clearer the biblical and hebrew meaning of the word, I am saying, this is the biblical
definition. But you seem now very silent on this subject while repeating the same idea I have got it wrong.

Please show me how. It appears you are the one who has got it wrong my friend.
God bless you.
 
There is a joke, when people count one as their enemy and just repeat the same idea, even if it is
wrong, like saying the earth is flat when clearly it is round, and then repeating the same idea
after all the evidence is in.

God cares about gross, obvious sin, because this declares the state of peoples hearts. OCD standards,
or feelings do not register except in condemning the believer that they have failed when God loves
them with all the humanity and frailty they have.
 
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