Not By Works

[JaumeJ]

When I have even inferred this you may call me on it. Have you read previous posts , very near above the one you think you hav responded to?

Why the but you statement as though it refutes a teaching from God?

I do understand what you are saying here. However, we have to have faith in Jesus and allow him to work through us. We can’t work by ourselves. We have to wait on him and let him work. If we are not careful we can get in our own selves and try to run up ahead of Jesus. I have found when we do that, we do nothing but make shipwreck. Our own works are dead works. So we have to wait on the Lord, trust, and depend on him and let him work through us.

 

[newlightseven]

You have made 18 posts here....and unless you have been here a while under a different banner you will find that almost everyone that teaches salvation dia grace through faith will also say that a believer will have at least one piece of fruit and or a work of God in their life.....the problem comes when saying that one MUST have works to gain, keep or facilitate salvation.....the bible does not teach that.....

The thief on the cross.....
a. He had no righteous works
b. He had no immersion of church affiliation or membership
c. He was a criminal, being put to death for thievery and murder

What did he do....He did not quote the "ROMAN ROAD" He did not jump through religious hoops, He did not quote John 3:16 or Ephesians 2:8-10 or Titus 3:5.....

HE said.....LORD, remember me when you come into your kingdom <-----FAITH and that FAITH void of any works SAVED HIM.....

THAT IS THE POINT.........

THIS is the Work of the FATHER...believe on him whom he hath sent.......

ONE who believes in JESUS has done the WORK of the FATHER....It pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that BELIEVE!

My Friend, the thief on the cross comforted, and rebuked the the other guy on the cross while Jesus was being crucified. He said that Jesus was not guilty while most were condemning him and while the sins of all the true believers were being placed on him. Not only that he admitted his guilt. He was there for Jesus when his father turned away for that moment. Even some of his disciplines were not there doing his most trying moment. How can you say he had no fruit. I say to you what he did for Jesus while on the cross is probably accounted more so than all of our fruit combined. Who said that you have to have church? It is said that it is good to have fellowship with the saints. Should we not teach that as well? Even murders and criminals can be saved if they do the work of repentance, and show fruit.

examine the righteous people the in the bible, you will see that all of them had fruit and repented. Name a righteous man in the bible who did not have fruit. Name a person in the bible who had no fruit yet was saved...

 

[newlightseven]

and what happened to the righteous when they stopped doing well in the land? Did they keep their righteousness or were they fallen from grace until they did the good work of repentance and show fruit?

 

[1ofthem]

When I have even inferred this you may call me on it. Have you read previous posts , very near above the one you think you hav responded to?

Why the but you statement as though it refutes a teaching from God?

I wasn't trying to call you out on anything just adding that along with your post...where you said it will make people joyous to do good works. I have seen a lot of people including myself...get a little to joyous to have good works and run ahead of Jesus and do things on their own.

As far as the "but you statement" you are referring to I'm not even sure what you are saying there or where I wrote that...you'll have to clarify that one for me...

 

[JaumeJ]

Please forgive my oversidght, I am sorry.

As for getting ahead of Jesus in joyously working the good works, this will never occur if a person waits on the Holy Spirit. If a person does not, that person is trying to do and think in place of God, and no man is able to do that. You have said it, it will cause lots of complications, and get him nowhere. God bless you.

I wasn't trying to call you out on anything just adding that along with your post...where you said it will make people joyous to do good works. I have seen a lot of people including myself...get a little to joyous to have good works and run ahead of Jesus and do things on their own.

As far as the "but you statement" you are referring to I'm not even sure what you are saying there or where I wrote that...you'll have to clarify that one for me...

 

[dcontroversal]

My Friend, the thief on the cross comforted, and rebuked the the other guy on the cross while Jesus was being crucified. He said that Jesus was not guilty while most were condemning him and while the sins of all the true believers were being placed on him. Not only that he admitted his guilt. He was there for Jesus when his father turned away for that moment. Even some of his disciplines were not there doing his most trying moment. How can you say he had no fruit. I say to you what he did for Jesus while on the cross is probably accounted more so than all of our fruit combined. Who said that you have to have church? It is said that it is good to have fellowship with the saints. Should we not teach that as well? Even murders and criminals can be saved if they do the work of repentance, and show fruit.

examine the righteous people the in the bible, you will see that all of them had fruit and repented. Name a righteous man in the bible who did not have fruit. Name a person in the bible who had no fruit yet was saved...

Are you still dense to the point that he done none of those things before he had faith.....He acknowledge the punishment for his earthly crime, we are getting what we deserve (said to the other thief) he acknowledged that Jesus did not deserve to be crucified and HE ACKNOWLEDGED JESUS BY FAITH AS LORD......

FAITH is a SPIRITUAL GIFT from GOD.....NAME ONE MAN THAT DID ONE WORK BEFORE faith.......go ahead....name one that the works produced saving faith....we will all wait for either
a) ever
b) something out of context

nice try....the text dose not support works generating faith that saves in the one being saved

 

[1ofthem]

Please forgive my oversidght, I am sorry.

As for getting ahead of Jesus in joyously working the good works, this will never occur if a person waits on the Holy Spirit. If a person does not, that person is trying to do and think in place of God, and no man is able to do that. You have said it, it will cause lots of complications, and get him nowhere. God bless you.

No worries...it's fine...it's easy to misunderstand what people write or their true intentions on here sometimes...

Anyhow, I agree and God Bless you too.

 

[dcontroversal]

and what happened to the righteous when they stopped doing well in the land? Did they keep their righteousness or were they fallen from grace until they did the good work of repentance and show fruit?

This just speaks to being ignorant of.....

a) The Hebrews were under a conditional covenant to remain in the land and be blessed
b) That covenant does not apply to a N.T. Saint

Nice try to mix in the law/adherence to the law with grace....more fallacy!

 

[Utah]

ACTUALL JOHN 316 IS A PARAGRAPH NOT A SENTENCE

What's your point?

 

[Utah]

what end of story like the be all and end all are you God ? or are you just on a high horse with a wip hmmmmm

YOU CAN HAVE FAITH But if you dont show good works then your faith is dead as faith without works is dead as works are a gift of the fruits and that is that

Is sharing a smile with a stranger, especially someone who is different from you, a good enough work, or do you have to strip naked and give all your clothes every time you pass someone walking down the street? How much is in your bank account? You should have next to nothing the way you talk.

 

[Utah]

Why is it so hard for people to understand the following....

A. Jesus takes worthless, useless sinner (such as myself)
B. He calls me, convicts me, gives me the faith I need as a gift, saves me, justifies me, sanctifies me as (useful) seals me as one of his own and then WORKS THROUGH ME AS A WILLING VESSEL AND LIVING SACRIFICE....

THE ENTIRE process is JESUS, by JESUS, through JESUS and JESUS in US dia the SPIRIT AND THE WORD....

That is WHY works DO NOT SAVE, KEEP SAVED, EMBELLISH OUR SALVATION....that is why MAN CANNOT BOAST or USE WORKS as a valid REASON to ENTER GOD'S kingdom.....

IT IS ALL JESUS and he alone deserves the GLORY and PRAISE!

This ^^^^^ should be a sticky on CC for all generations to see.

 

[Utah]

:::death::: at people quoting "this is the work of God" that you believe on him who he has sent.

and then claiming that, believing in him is their work when it clearly says it is the gift of God.

Ephesians even goes on to say not NOT TO BOAST about it and that is what people who are just claiming believe without works are doing. It even goes on to say why he gave the gift of faith or it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…

:eath:; it then goes on to tell you about your richs and tells you WALK WORTHY OF THE VOCATION wherewith ya are called

Folks can cut and paste, and misquote one verse of the bible like the Lords mercy endureth forever, and the law is done away with, and grace all they want, and not read the other verses in the bible to find what faith, who the righteous are, and is there a difference between law and good works.

The bible is very clear about what will happen to people who take the gift of faith which was given them and have no fruit. He won't let you in the kingdom. It even tell you that you will be beaten with more stripes because you knew what he wanted you to do but didn't do those things. While the person who didn't know will be beaten with less stripes. Because ye reaped where you didn't sow.

okay I am finished this time. I pray that no one on this forum is lead astray by anyone quoting one sentence, and not fullying understanding that sentence, and saying all we must do is have faith and not realize with faith comes the calling to do good works.

But they will have to answer to God for taking verses out of the bible intentionally misleading whoever they lead stray and take the grace of God for granted. When they know exactly what ELSE THE BIBLE SAYS and omit those things and lead people to hell.

Lord have mercy..

Then don't share Christ with anyone until they're on their death bed, lest they fail to do enough works to maintain their salvation.

 

[JIMBO43]

Im not ignorant enough to fall into the way people do or do not think,,, Its not that you may be thinking your thoughts it may be the many meaning you have digested that has blotted your grasp of logic in the fact that some things go to gether like a horse and carriage for it is not faith alone that saves you,,,,,,,,,,,WHY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, BECAUSE as it is written you can have faith without works Because we are told that faith without works is dead,,,,meaning you who have faith what good is it if you dont show the works..

So to spell it out in this sence of the meaning it is not faith alone that saves you for it is works too as faith plus no works equals dead faith (PERIOD end of for me but maybe not for you but chuckle chuckle

 

[Utah]

I have been reading this board for a while, and it comes off as many are telling people to just have faith, and are pushing grace grace grace and not going into what that means nor what else you have to do like John said to bring forth fruit worthy of repentance. And anytime anyone dare tells someone to repent or to try to do those things pleasing to the Lord it is met with you are preaching law. As what happened to myself as I was telling people to bring forth fruit and was met with THAT IS LAW.

How about advocating good works to the glory of God with a joyful heart rather than instilling fear that people will lose their salvation if they are "not good enough." Reality check, filthy rags aren't good enough.

 

[JIMBO43]

Im not ignorant enough to fall into the way people do or do not think,,, Its not that you may be thinking your thoughts it may be the many meaning you have digested that has blotted your grasp of logic in the fact that some things go to gether like a horse and carriage for it is not faith alone that saves you,,,,,,,,,,,WHY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, BECAUSE as it is written you can have faith without works Because we are told that faith without works is dead,,,,meaning you who have faith what good is it if you dont show the works..

So to spell it out in this sence of the meaning it is not faith alone that saves you for it is works too as faith plus no works equals dead faith (PERIOD end of for me but maybe not for you but chuckle chuckle

So how can this be one asks himself, we who have faith but not showing the works, its called growing and youll get there one day chukle chukle

 

[JesusRules1]

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[dcontroversal]

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yes nice verses and in context they do not teach a works based means of salvation.........one has to do with the collective works of a CHURCH and the other has to do with the ability of MEN to see your faith.....

flap, flap, flap..............

 

[dcontroversal]

Im not ignorant enough to fall into the way people do or do not think,,, Its not that you may be thinking your thoughts it may be the many meaning you have digested that has blotted your grasp of logic in the fact that some things go to gether like a horse and carriage for it is not faith alone that saves you,,,,,,,,,,,WHY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, BECAUSE as it is written you can have faith without works Because we are told that faith without works is dead,,,,meaning you who have faith what good is it if you dont show the works..


So to spell it out in this sence of the meaning it is not faith alone that saves you for it is works too as faith plus no works equals dead faith (PERIOD end of for me but maybe not for you but chuckle chuckle

Your horse is short legged on one side and is going in circles.......go read Galatians chapters 1 and 3....pay particular attention to the use of "ANOTHER".....

faith + works to complete salvation is a gospel of ANOTHER KIND which is not the SAME KIND and it has no power to save, is double cursed by GOD.............

 

[JIMBO43]

How long does it take an apple tree to bear? Before it bears is it an apple tree by birth (seed sprout)?
How many apples are required on the tree to prove it is an apple tree?

ok how long befor befor a persons fruits go boom.

At the end of the season when the leaves and fruit have all fallen can you tell it was an apple tree by the dried up apple left by the deer under the tree?

SOME THINGS DONT ALWAYS LOOK RIGHT FROM THE OUTWARD APEARENCE .

Is faith a gift?.

to have faith is two meanings OR MORE,,,wHiCH MEANING DO YOU HAVE...... which one do you have.

Is salvation a gift?.

iN WHAT SENCE ARE YOU ASKING NO ITS A PROMISE OR YES
Is eternal life a gift? .

A gift cannot be earned if it was already given BEFORE the CASTING DOWN OF THE WORLD................

A REWARD IS A GIFT BUT BLANKLET STATING IS IGNORANT

 

[dcontroversal]

ok how long befor befor a persons fruits go boom.
SOME THINGS DONT ALWAYS LOOK RIGHT FROM THE OUTWARD APEARENCE .

to have faith is two meanings OR MORE,,,wHiCH MEANING DO YOU HAVE...... which one do you have.
iN WHAT SENCE ARE YOU ASKING NO ITS A PROMISE OR YES
Is eternal life a gift? .

A REWARD IS A GIFT BUT BLANKLET STATING IS IGNORANT

You said nothing in the above that negates my questions and or statements......and everything I said or asked is answered biblically......and or makes a valid point!