Not By Works

newlightseven · Jan 14, 2017

again you are confused about the people who are under grace and accounted as the faithful. The people who are under faith are the people who believe in the savior and do the works. The people who just say I believe and have no fruit are not under grace nor accounted as faithful.

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ [SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

I am not saying you have no works because I honestly think you do. But i don't want the masses deceived to somehow think they don't have to do the work to repent, and come to their calling of workmanship in Christ as he called us to.

Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. 5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I won't bother to re quote the parable of the servants who were given gifts and the one took his gift and did not show any fruit and thus was cast into outer darkness.

Even the demons believe and tremble..

the people who have faith= the people who believe in Jesus plus do good works

Why can't you just believe?? because just believing WAS GIVEN TO YOU AS A GIFT FROM GOD SO YOU CAN'T BOAST

That is made clear in the parables of the servants who was given gifts and the one WHO DID NOTHING WAS cast into outer darkness

that is further made clear when it is blatantly said faith without works is Dead.

it also is made clear when he cursed the fig because it did not have fruit.

I will let you alone because it is made clear thoughout the scriptures we should do the work of repentance, and there is not a single person who was saved who did not have a change of heart or had a working faith to begin with. Even the theft on the cross did. Amazing people think they can do anything and think they will be saved because they just believe. That's like saying Hitler or the worst people can do whatever they want and come to the end of their life and say Jesus, I believe in you, and will be forgiven of everything. Sorry but a tree is known by it's fruit.

Grace777x70 · Jan 14, 2017

The righteous are "unconscious" of themselves doing good works. It just flowed naturally from them from the life of Christ inside of them. People "demanding good works" from others do not fit the illustration of those that are righteous.

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.

We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

newlightseven · Jan 14, 2017

and let me clear up this statement

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH without works.......PAUL ROMANS...... that is not right! What it is saying is that we are not justified by the LAW. That doesn't mean we have no works. why because people who believe and have works are under grace not the law

New International Version
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

New Living Translation
So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

English Standard Version
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Berean Study Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore we reckon a man to be justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

New American Standard Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

King James Bible
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

International Standard Version
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the actions prescribed by the Law.

NET Bible
For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.

New Heart English Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
We determine therefore that by faith a man is made righteous and not by the works of The Written Law.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

New American Standard 1977
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

SarahFaith · Jan 15, 2017

(Rom 1)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel 3 of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

(Rom 4)

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father1 has found according to the flesh?

2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has [something] to boast about, but not before God.

3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was 2 accounted to him for righteousness.”

4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted 3 as grace but 4 as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed [are those] whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;

8 Blessed [is the] man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

garee · Jan 15, 2017

Since faith without works, or a labor of love without works is dead, just as a body without a spirit .It necessary to recognize whose faith it is that performs the works needed to satisfy the just demands of God. Because the faith is not of ourselves we recognize it is of Christ our Faithful Creator.

Therefore both James and Paul are in perfect agreement.

Twice the phrase "work of faith" is used directly. Indirectly it is the golden thread woven throughout the scriptures.

1Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

The the good pleasure Of Christ's goodness, the work of Christ's faith with power .This is not of our own self least any boast in empty pride.

From my experiences most fail to recognize that God has faith and exercises it (works it) according to His will . Most say He has no faith because He needs none making the faith of God without effect.

In Philippians 2, faith as revealed will of God, with power to perform what he appoints to us. In that way it is He that makes our hearts soft .

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Phi 2:12

The idea of separating faith from works (a work of faith) .Only makes the faith of God (not of us) without effect.

It would be like God in His foreknowledge (belief,faith ) pronounce as a work; Let their be light ...and nothing appeared. His faith would be considered dead.

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

All you did was clarify that we are not justified by WORKS genius......

Paul's conclusion was a man will never be justified before God by works...and if the WORKS OF THE LAW WILL NOT JUSTIFY...how much less the WORKS OF MEN or THE WORKS of the FLESH?????

Nice try....but no ceeegar genius.....works do not save, keep saved or facilitate salvation.....

I can see you being one of the (plenteous in number) that go before the Lord boasting of ALL the wonderful works you have done in his name.....good luck with that.....!

newlightseven said:

and let me clear up this statement

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH without works.......PAUL ROMANS...... that is not right! What it is saying is that we are not justified by the LAW. That doesn't mean we have no works. why because people who believe and have works are under grace not the law

New International Version
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

New Living Translation
So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

English Standard Version
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Berean Study Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore we reckon a man to be justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

New American Standard Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

King James Bible
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

International Standard Version
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the actions prescribed by the Law.

NET Bible
For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.

New Heart English Bible
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
We determine therefore that by faith a man is made righteous and not by the works of The Written Law.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We conclude that a person has God's approval by faith, not by his own efforts.

New American Standard 1977
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

You really should study more.....

MANY (plenteous in number) will come before me boasting of ALL of the wonderful works they have done in my name......You will be in that group......

The demons do not BELIEVE in JESUS and acknowledge him as SAVIOR....they KNOW GOD is real, but do not exercise saving faith.....

and if you would take time and open your eyes pal....WORKS do NOT SAVE, KEEP SAVE, FACILLITATE salvation..........the works are a BY PRODUCT of the FAITH and SALVATION that one already POSSESSES.......

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HAS HE SAVED US......

WAKE UP......your trusting into a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which has NO POWER to SAVE..it is DOUBLE CURSED....

OH FOOLS (FOOLISH GALATIANS) HAVING begun in the SPIRIT are you now made PERFECT (COMPLETE) by WORKS......

A man is rendered JUST (justified) by the FAITH OF CHRIST........HE that BEGAN the GOOD WORK will FINISH the GOOD WORK........

and your last statement reeks of ignorance......so tell me genius.....the THIEF on the cross did exactly what your remark about HITLER implies...HE LIVED his whole LIFE contrary and was being put to death for thievery and murder................go to seed on your working for salvation....the bible condemns it!

QUOTE=newlightseven;2943060]again you are confused about the people who are under grace and accounted as the faithful. The people who are under faith are the people who believe in the savior and do the works. The people who just say I believe and have no fruit are not under grace nor accounted as faithful.

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ [SUP]37 [/SUP]“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? [SUP]39 [/SUP]When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

[SUP]40 [/SUP]“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

I am not saying you have no works because I honestly think you do. But i don't want the masses deceived to somehow think they don't have to do the work to repent, and come to their calling of workmanship in Christ as he called us to.

Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. 5I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I won't bother to re quote the parable of the servants who were given gifts and the one took his gift and did not show any fruit and thus was cast into outer darkness.

Even the demons believe and tremble..

the people who have faith= the people who believe in Jesus plus do good works

Why can't you just believe?? because just believing WAS GIVEN TO YOU AS A GIFT FROM GOD SO YOU CAN'T BOAST

That is made clear in the parables of the servants who was given gifts and the one WHO DID NOTHING WAS cast into outer darkness

that is further made clear when it is blatantly said faith without works is Dead.

it also is made clear when he cursed the fig because it did not have fruit.

I will let you alone because it is made clear thoughout the scriptures we should do the work of repentance, and there is not a single person who was saved who did not have a change of heart or had a working faith to begin with. Even the theft on the cross did. Amazing people think they can do anything and think they will be saved because they just believe. That's like saying Hitler or the worst people can do whatever they want and come to the end of their life and say Jesus, I believe in you, and will be forgiven of everything. Sorry but a tree is known by it's fruit.[/QUOTE]

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

SarahFaith said:

AMEN to this one as well......amazing that many (plenteous in number) will come before the throne of God boasting in ALL that they HAVE done in the name of JESUS......he states clearly.....I NEVER KNEW YOU......WHY? BECAUSE like a thief they attempted to come by their "working for" salvation door......not gonna happen.............

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Jan 15, 2017

Psalm 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Amen.......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.....
If you believe with all your heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved....
With the mind (heart) man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (acknowledging JESUS as Lord)

JIMBO43 · Jan 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you

look at the scripture again

This scripture is clear do the work of satan or the work of the lord to which your father will reward you ..

So to be clear tHE FATHER REWARDS THOSE WHO DO GOOD WORKS FOR HIM.

1ofthem · Jan 15, 2017

I was taught to believe you have to work to be saved. You know, the whole “you have to work to receive a pay day” thing….This made me think of everything as working…even prayer. Which in turn, caused me to pray these really long dry prayers…just to increase the time I was praying. The same thing with reading the Bible, I would plow through it as fast as I could just so that I would get more chapters read. I would attend church sometimes just to get my time in.

I wasn’t learning anything and my relationship with the Lord was suffering because I was just doing what I thought I had to do. I wasn’t really putting my heart into it and I wasn’t depending upon Jesus. When I made a mistake, I would try to run and hide from God because I was afraid. I didn’t really know of his love and mercy because I thought of him as just grading my work.

Outwardly I appeared to have good works or fruits, but my fruits were more like imitation or plastic fruits. Inwardly I was so confused and struggling because I was depending upon myself to do good and not God. Thank God, he finally let me realize that the only work that I could do was have faith in him and trust and lean upon him. That’s when he was able to begin working in and through me. That’s when I started seeing real fruits in my life…instead of the imitation or plastic fruits….

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

No one has said that God does not reward faithful service.......No one has said that the saved will not have fruit or works...the argument is......do works SAVE US, KEEP US SAVED or FACILLITATE SALVATION.....

the answer is NO...they do not.....SALVATION is a ONCE FOR ALL ACT that is based UPON FAITH which ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS......it is not gained nor maintained by works......end of story!

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

1ofthem said:

Amen....the just shall live by faith......

faith alone saves.....end of story....we cannot help JESUS save us...it is all his work, blood, justification, sanctification etc.....

He that BEGAN the GOOD WORK will FINISH what HE started......

He that believeth on the Son has eternal life.....end of story........

Paul-->ROMANS-->A man is justified before GOD by faith
James-->JAMES-->BEFORE MEN our INVISIBLE FAITH is seen in our works or fruit

The works/fruit are a by product and result of the faith and salvation we already possess in Christ dia faith....

JIMBO43 · Jan 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

what end of story like the be all and end all are you God ? or are you just on a high horse with a wip hmmmmm

YOU CAN HAVE FAITH But if you dont show good works then your faith is dead as faith without works is dead as works are a gift of the fruits and that is that

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Actually, I am standing on the word of God and what it teaches about salvation.....and it seem you are the one on the proverbial "high horse" with your working for salvation.....can you read and understand English?

What does the following say....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No one has said that God does not reward faithful service.......No one has said that the saved will not have fruit or works...the argument is......do works SAVE US, KEEP US SAVED or FACILLITATE SALVATION.....

the answer is NO...they do not.....SALVATION is a ONCE FOR ALL ACT that is based UPON FAITH which ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS......it is not gained nor maintained by works......end of story!

JIMBO43 · Jan 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Actually, I am standing on the word of God and what it teaches about salvation.....and it seem you are the one on the proverbial "high horse" with your working for salvation.....can you read and understand English?

What does the following say....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No one has said that God does not reward faithful service.......No one has said that the saved will not have fruit or works...the argument is......do works SAVE US, KEEP US SAVED or FACILLITATE SALVATION.....

the answer is NO...they do not.....SALVATION is a ONCE FOR ALL ACT that is based UPON FAITH which ACKNOWLEDGES JESUS......it is not gained nor maintained by works......end of story!

love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage this i tell my mother you cant have one without the other

FreeNChrist · Jan 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

"Good works" done for show is an oxymoron.

dcontroversal · Jan 15, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

and I would Quote the words of JESUS......

English Standard Version
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Berean Study Bible
Jesus replied, "This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent."

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you should believe in Him whom He has sent."

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

JaumeJ · Jan 15, 2017

I believe, starting with myself, that eveyone in this thread is well aware that we are saved only by the grace afforded by the Blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

Apparently some here are against works induced by faith in Him. It is made clear in the Word that faith without works is no faith at all.

Some here equate works by faith with being under the law. These same equate obedience of God with being under the law. We who know must pray that all come together in faith and belief.

We are converted from works of darkness as children of disobedience to children of obedience performing works of the Hoy Spirit in the light for all to see and appreciate giving all glory to God only.

No works are for personal glory..........though they do result in etrnal reward.

Not By Works

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