"Not by works" - false!
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Didn't Jesus say, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” Has He been lifted up? Are not all now being drawn?
oh? God can't by testimony of evidence establish guilt?
was Judas appointed to destruction?
did Judas hear the gospel?
was the Law not given to a people He knew would not keep it?
one day all will stand before Him & every knee will bow and every tongue confess.
but will that inescapable genuflection & confession be counted as righteousness?
this is either universal salvation, or it is not the drawing by the Spirit which leads to salvation. He is the crux of all things, and all will be resurrected, some to life and some to condemnation.
Has He been lifted up? Are not all now being drawn? You didn't answer either
Has He been lifted up? Are not all now being drawn? You didn't answer either
He has been lifted up on the cross, and He told the sons of Belial that when He was they would know that He is I AM THAT I AM -- John 8:28
does this mean they are drawn? i can't tell you. but it does mean they do not have plausible deniability.
when He said this perhaps He was fulfilling Isaiah 11:10, drawing a people from every nation to Himself. John 12:32 literally says if He is lifted up, from all the earth He will draw to Himself -- the word "people" or "men" isn't in the text, it's added through translation, and the comma, which also isn't part of the text, is placed by interpretation.
when He said this perhaps it is different from what He said in John 6:44, that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them. He explains what this means in John 6:64-65, because some did not believe, and He knew from the beginning who did and did not, and who would deliver Him to the cross. so if John 6:44, it is not possible to come to Him unless the Father draws me, means that belief vs. unbelief is associated with the drawing of the Father to the Son, with coming to Him, then we either have universal salvation or we have a drawing to Him which is salvific and a drawing to Him which is of all things, because He is the crux of all things, and that drawing results in the damnation of the wicked, having no excuse, and the approval of the justified, because they have believed.
He has been lifted up to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, also. Two different interlinears said "all will draw to myself." There is definite tension between some Scriptures, yet finding the path through to reconcile them is not impossible. Yes, all belong to God, none have any excuse, we all deserve death, we cannot save ourselves by our own free will, which as you may know I disagree with the term, preferring instead the term "self-will." The point being I agree it is God Who draws us while it is up to us to respond, which He makes possible without forcing us. We love because He first loved us, knowing Him how could any refuse? He has all power. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, both fear Him Who has the power to destroy both body and soul, and respect Him for Who He is.
PRO. 6:16.
These six things does The LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:
17.
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18.
An heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19.
A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren.
ROMANS 9:13.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
These six things does The LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:
17.
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18.
An heart that devises wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19.
A false witness that speaks lies, and he that sows discord among brethren.
ROMANS 9:13.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
yes, and "from the earth"
it has to be determined,
does "from the earth" go with "lifted up"
or does "from the earth" go with "all will draw"
i.e. is this "lifted up from the earth"
or is this "from all the earth will draw"
yes
and He is The Way, and that is The Truth ♥
you know, i think that might be a contradiction
i tell my beloved, it is impossible that i not love her -- that even if i were to try to put her away from me, i could not; i am compelled by something greater than me to love her. how could i refuse her?
if that makes sense.
No argument from me about this.
As I've said, faith is only a conduit through which we access the ongoing ministry of Christ that keeps us justified:
"25 whence also he (Jesus) is able to save to the very end, those coming through him unto God — ever living to make intercession for them." - Hebrews 7:25
"33Who shall lay a charge against the choice ones of God? God [is] He that is declaring righteous, 34who [is] he that is condemning? Christ [is] He that died, yea, rather also, was raised up; who is also on the right hand of God — who also doth intercede for us." - Romans 8:33-34
Your justification is complete, yet as we see above, it is in a continual state of being secured for you by Jesus' ongoing intercessory ministry in heaven. Your continuing faith in Christ is how you access that ongoing ministry of intercession. If you stop believing, you no longer have access to Christ's ministry in heaven keeping you to the very end.
I know it's hard to believe, but people really do back to unbelief, choosing to not trust and rely on Christ for justification anymore.
I know somebody who got saved, received a dramatic gift of the Spirit, yet years later, by their own admission, fell away into unbelief. And as far as I know they are still there today.
As long as you still have faith in God's forgiveness and do not renounce your trust in him he'll be faithful even when you're not. Only going back to willful unbelief will release God from his obligation to guard and protect and keep the person who has believed.
I believe in election, too.
It's a legitimate Biblical truth.
I just don't agree with Calvin's understanding of it.
You define many theological words differently than it commonly understand. It makes it difficult to understand you.
My Bible says what most if not all versions say in John 3:16. The same with John 3:3-8. I have no idea what your point is, other than your Bible is confusing you.
If what you say about choosing darkness was true there would be no Christians. If you love darkness instead of light that's your problem not mine. Some of us walk in the light by choice because He is in the light, .
What are all those numbers?
Taking a few lines out of context and including the verse numbers (that aren't part of the Bible text) is laziness. Also, what does one verse from Romans have to do with anything?
E
EleventhHour
Guest
You are adding this into scripture.
If the Judge declares me INNOCENT of all charges because another has paid my debt and I trust in/have faith in this payment on my behalf it does not require my ongoing belief for it to be accessed and continue to be in place.
It is done, paid.
Not good how you add self-effort to the Gospel.