Loss of salvation???

[sawdust]

Both water and Spirit are involved in the NT rebirth conversion

That is not water baptism. If it were, it would require every single believer throughout history to be baptized with water in order to be saved. If being born of the Spirit is necessary then so is water. The reality is many were never baptized with water.

You misunderstand the points made about 1 Peter. The flood event, the dying of the sinful, foreshadows the NT water baptism reality;

No I don't and no it doesn't. It foreshadows the reality we have when baptized with the Spirit. It is talking about how the flood foreshadowed the death to sin and new life we have in Christ. That reality can only be obtained through the work of the Holy Spirit. Water simply will not do that, it has no power to do that.

In water baptism, it is the Spirit of God that brings about the reality He promised when man chooses to believe and obey the command.

The baptism of Cornelius shows us water is unnecessary. He died to sin and was raised to life before Peter baptized him with water. The Spirit does His work on the authority of Christ, not the authority of men.

And I'll leave you with this. One baptism, something you have never addressed.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The world is on the wide path, Christians are on the narrow path. And you have decided to just go off trail beating brush and are now lost with no compass.

I bring up denominations because Pentecostal Oneness is the only denomination that shares your beliefs and yes they only make up 0.2-0.6% of Christians worldwide.

Instead of following Jesus you seem to think we should just mimic what happened 3 time in acts and just ignore the other 7 conversions in acts that didn’t include tongues.

 

[Wansvic]

But you believe the unsaved can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit don't you. In my view, and this is a sincere view, that negates me finding your beliefs credible. Whether it be Pentecostals(mainline) catholics, lutherans, methodists, Baptists, or any other mainline denomination, and, though these denominations may have much differences in beliefs, they all know the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the unsaved. And therefore, Father and son do not dwell in the unsaved. In my view, you have made a fatal as it were error concerning christian belief, in respect of credibility

I shared why God gave His Spirit to the Gentiles prior to their being water baptized. I also referenced Paul's prayer, in a previous post, that we would be blameless in Spirit, Soul and Body. I've often wondered if Paul's prayer points to the Spirit, Soul and Body being sanctified/dealt with separately via repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and being infilled with the Holy Ghost.

We are told that God's ways are not our ways. And to think we know it all would be a big mistake.

 

[James456]

I shared why God gave His Spirit to the Gentiles prior to their being water baptized. I also referenced Paul's prayer, in a previous post, that we would be blameless in Spirit, Soul and Body. I've often wondered if Paul's prayer points to the Spirit, Soul and Body being sanctified/dealt with separately via repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and being infilled with the Holy Ghost.

We are told that God's ways are not our ways. And to think we know it all would be a big mistake.

Indeed, to think we know it all would be a big mistake, and to believe Father and Son would dwell in the unsaved would be a huge mistake

 

[Ouch]

The world is on the wide path, Christians are on the narrow path. And you have decided to just go off trail beating brush and are now lost with no compass.

I bring up denominations because Pentecostal Oneness is the only denomination that shares your beliefs and yes they only make up 0.2-0.6% of Christians worldwide.

Instead of following Jesus you seem to think we should just mimic what happened 3 time in acts and just ignore the other 7 conversions in acts that didn’t include tongues.

Wha seperates the world from Christians?

Just becuase someone calls themselves a chirstian, does that make them a Chirstian?

Being reborn does, so would you say that everyone that calls them selves Christains are??

I know there are some church's who don't even allow JESUS in!!!

So how about leaving ALL denomantions out and just use GODS word???

Just because they didn't mentions tongues in those 7? not questioning you? You ignore the 4 not three. Acts 8 they didn't HEAR something is how they knew they didn't get it, then they know they did. Why would Paul EXPOUND on tongues so much in 1 Cor?

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

SO IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED!!!!

You also ignore that Peter and JESUS both said that you will speak in tongues!!! Acts 2:33, Mark 16:17

So thsoe 4 times and info I get from JESUS and Peter in good with me.

AND I WILL ADD, when JESUS filled me, it changed my LIFE, HE'S ALIVE AND I CAN PROVE IT!!!

I WILL ALSO ADD, JESUS told HIS disciples NOT TO GO OUT WITHOUT IT.

Back to, just becsue someone calls them selves Christains are they?

Same questions?

Do you think Acts 2:38 is a false gospel?

Do you think being baptized in JESUS name is a false gospel?

Do you think JESUS filling us with the Holy Ghost and the evidence of it is a false gospel?

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed???

 

[PennEd]

Indeed:
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1Cor15:50
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness Rom8:10

You sin in your flesh, flesh and blood cannot enter heaven, so the doctrine of purgatory always amazes me. Why would your flesh need to purged of sin in order to enter a place it will not go?

I wonder about those who were/are baptized in filthy pond water filled with harmful microbes one dares not drink, or contaminated river water also filled with little critters one should never ingest?

Conversely, do they think that the filtered and chlorinated tubs in their churchianity buildings do a better job at allegedly washing away their sins more effectively because of that water allegedly being more clean...apart from those who might pee in it from the giggles of glee for thinking they've really accomplished something in addition to the allegedly insufficient Blood of Christ and His grace...?

I'm just wondering, because when John the Baptist, who is emphatically stated to have been sent to preach AND to baptize, as a complete and utter contrast to Paul who said that he was NOT sent to baptize, John, who baptized in the Jordan river, was that river's water cleaner back then than now? Can anyone in that gang answer these questions?

What of those baptized in the Dead Sea? They must have been pushed down harder into that brackish, salty water to get them fully immersed. Did that preservative salt do a better job at allegedly cleansing and washing away sins better than that wimpy, peed in, chlorine saturated and shocked water used in churchianity tubs, did that huge salt content do a better job at allegedly washing away sins?

Given their thinking that works-based salvation through self effort in water baptism supplements the Blood of Christ and His unmerited favor, I'm figuring that they must give some consideration to the water quality, would they not?

How about all those legalistic followers of ordinances and Law out there, those who believe water baptism remits their sins...do you all and your gang ever give thought to all that? After all, legalism most generally always gives thought to all aspects of a ceremonial act required for some spiritual outcome, right?

Consider leaven in bread. Given that detail as to what had to be left out of bread for it to be fit for the offerings and partaking in ceremonial endeavors that we Israeli's practiced throughout our ancient history on the basis of the Law, one would think that they all must have SOME minimal standards for the cleanliness of the water. Do they think they're more clean had their getting wet been performed in the chlorinated waters of their churchianity tub up front...or wherever it is?

MM

Couple points about this discussion.

Those of us that are EX-Catholics are very sensitive to the heretical Mary worship that Catholics engage in. Sometimes so much so, that we don’t give Mary her due. She was chosen by God and blessed AMONG (not above) women.

The same can happen with this Baptism issue.

ALL of us SHOULD be Baptized. It is commanded by Jesus. It shows obedience, and tells the world we have been SYMBOLICALLY washed of our sin by the Blood of Christ, and our desire to follow Jesus. It CANNOT literally remove our sins for several reasons.
1. If that was the method to remove sin, We’d have to get Baptized again every time we sin after becoming Born Again.

2. Although it is a demonstration of our faith and commitment to Jesus, it would absolutely be a WORK WE have to perform in order to be saved. Thus opening the door to boasting, and robbing Jesus of His SOLE Glory in Him saving us.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Wha seperates the world from Christians?

Just becuase someone calls themselves a chirstian, does that make them a Chirstian?

Being reborn does, so would you say that everyone that calls them selves Christains are??

I know there are some church's who don't even allow JESUS in!!!

So how about leaving ALL denomantions out and just use GODS word???

Just because they didn't mentions tongues in those 7? not questioning you? You ignore the 4 not three. Acts 8 they didn't HEAR something is how they knew they didn't get it, then they know they did. Why would Paul EXPOUND on tongues so much in 1 Cor?

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

SO IT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED!!!!

You also ignore that Peter and JESUS both said that you will speak in tongues!!! Acts 2:33, Mark 16:17

So thsoe 4 times and info I get from JESUS and Peter in good with me.

AND I WILL ADD, when JESUS filled me, it changed my LIFE, HE'S ALIVE AND I CAN PROVE IT!!!

I WILL ALSO ADD, JESUS told HIS disciples NOT TO GO OUT WITHOUT IT.

Back to, just becsue someone calls them selves Christains are they?

Same questions?

Do you think Acts 2:38 is a false gospel?

Do you think being baptized in JESUS name is a false gospel?

Do you think JESUS filling us with the Holy Ghost and the evidence of it is a false gospel?

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed???

I’m happy for you. He changed my life too. But no one can prove anything. That’s why it’s called faith.

And I guess not everyone is a Christian who claims to be a Christian unless you say they are. Sounds just like the sermons I used to hear. “We are the only ones with the truth and all others are going to hell”

People have anlready answered your questions. Your mind is closed to all their answers. My answers will make no difference.

 

[Ouch]

I’m happy for you. He changed my life too. But no one can prove anything. That’s why it’s called faith.

And I guess not everyone is a Christian who claims to be a Christian unless you say they are. Sounds just like the sermons I used to hear. “We are the only ones with the truth and all others are going to hell”

People have anlready answered your questions. Your mind is closed to all their answers. My answers will make no difference.

Is it becasue you don't like the questions?

If I'm so block headed, plant some seeds that will make it softer!

Maybe you answering them will do good?

I'm still pushing HIS word and to be honest doesn't feel like anything is sinking in, but I keep going.

I am saying that just because people claim to be a Christian does not mean they are!!

Has nothing to do with me.

These folks thought they were Christians and JESUS SENT THEM TO HELL, HE NEVER, NEVER, NEVER KNEW THEM!!

Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is your EVIDENCE that just because you say you are, does not mean you are!!

What message do you think I'm sharing that is wrong?

 

[Genez]

Since I don't tell you anything of what my church says how do you know what I say comes from my church?

Using the same crystal ball as you do with all of you accusations of me?

Well where is it coming from? A misguiding spirit that has gained a fondness for you, that says it is the Holy Ghost?

If this helps... Not sure.

The Holy Spirit will not refer to Himself as a "ghost."

Because the word in the Greek is not "ghost."

You're the kind that used to embarrass me when I was a new believer wanting others to know Jesus.
It made it, so I had to convince some that Christians are not stupid. Only some are.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If I'm so block headed, plant some seeds that will make it softer!

Throw more seeds on the sidewalk? I’m good. Have a nice day ouch.

 

[Ouch]

Well where is it coming from? A misguiding spirit that has gained a fondness for you, that says it is the Holy Ghost?

If this helps... Not sure.

The Holy Spirit will not refer to Himself as a "ghost."

Because the word in the Greek is not "ghost."

You're the kind that used to embarrass me when I was a new believer wanting others to know Jesus.
It made it, so I had to convince some that Christians are not stupid. Only some are.

I understand why you may be confused about that.

I didn't wright the book just follow it.

You should never be embarrass by HIS word.

Stupid Christians?

I let JESUS make them calls.

 

[Ouch]

Throw more seeds on the sidewalk? I’m good. Have a nice day ouch.

Yep, I feel the sameway almost in every post and sometimes just want to leave this sight.

But like Paul says in Romans 10:9 I need to coffees JESUS, how we they know without a preacher?

That is one reason I always ask, have you received the Holy Ghost since you have belived.

Just like Paul, I'm checking out foudations.

Did you know that after JESUS send those folks to Hell, HE spoke on FOUNDATION.

You have a BLESSED DAY.

 

[HigherGospel]

According to ouch about 85% of Christians aren’t saved.

Jesus is the One Who said few are saved:

Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

All who believe salvation can be lost must is saying that our salvation is in our own hands.
It is up to each of us after we believe and are saved must keep ourselves saved.

In other words after going down front at a church alter call to mumble some stuff about believing Jesus exists, you believe that makes then born again and they can go back to living in sin and still go to Heaven?

This is what all the "christians" who go around proudly proclaiming they are still "sinners" keep telling everyone.

Salvation is guaranteed

Only to those who abide IN Christ Jesus.

Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.

Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless they REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who was dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)

The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.

Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!

 

[James456]

If the unsaved can receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at pentecost and speak in tongues, how would a Pentecostal know they are saved?

 

[Genez]

I understand why you may be confused about that.

I didn't wright the book just follow it.

You should never be embarrass by HIS word.

Stupid Christians?

I let JESUS make them calls.

Like apples of gold in settings of silver.

"One thinks himself a genius by how well he can keep maintaining a persona of stupidity
amongst those who are dearly desiring truth to make them free.



The Holy Spirit makes them calls!​

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought
to make it obedient to Christ."

2 Corinthians 10:5

You? .....

You don't stand a ghost of a chance...
Furthermore, you are only acting stupid.
Why do you hate Christians so much who are truly maturing?

Now... turn on that genius of yours again.
Show us how cleverly stupid you can "act" about what was said.

For it was by one Spirit that we were all immersed/baptized into one body,
whether Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free; and we were all given the
one Spirit to drink. " 1 Corinthians 12:13

Now go drink some Novacaine.​

 

[mailmandan]

According to ouch about 85% of Christians aren’t saved.

All genuine Christians are saved but there are many "nominal" or pseudo-Christians who are deceived. (Matthew 7:15-23)

 

[Ouch]

According to ouch about 85% of Christians aren’t saved.

If your making that statment, you need to add some to it.

How to be saved,

John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call

Those to REFUSE TO OBEY JESUS is not saved, NOT MY RULES!!!

 

[Ouch]

Like apples of gold in settings of silver.

"One thinks himself a genius by how well he can keep maintaining a persona of stupidity
amongst those who are dearly desiring truth to make them free.



The Holy Spirit makes them calls!​

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up
against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought
to make it obedient to Christ."

2 Corinthians 10:5

You? .....

You don't stand a ghost of a chance...
Furthermore, you are only acting stupid.
Why do you hate Christians so much who are truly maturing?

Now... turn on that genius of yours again.
Show us how cleverly stupid you can "act" about what was said.

For it was by one Spirit that we were all immersed/baptized into one body,
whether Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free; and we were all given the
one Spirit to drink. " 1 Corinthians 12:13

Now go drink some Novacaine.​

Looks like were back to we can judge a tree my it's fruits.

 

[Sipsey]

Do you think Acts 2:38 is a false gospel?

Do you think being baptized in JESUS name is a false gospel?

Do you think JESUS filling us with the Holy Ghost and the evidence of it is a false gospel?

Your view is just the oposite of JESUS'S.

Looks to me like .6 is heanve bound not the 99.4!!

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

FYI, NOTING I SHARED HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH A CHURCH, I ONLY SHARED HIS WORD!!!

Why are you talking about demoninations?

I'm sure your numbers are wrong, I'm sure there will be more than .6% Heaven bound.

Have YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed???

It seems all of your go-to verses come from Acts. Each chapter paints a different perspective based on each authors personality, but with the same message. Many verses seem in contradiction, but with prayer and study, over time they crystalize with meaning. Jesus said: “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” In other words, we cannot simply ignore some verses in favor of those we prefer.

I am not sure how long you have been a Christian, but I would suggest that you focus on the entire body of Scripture before becoming too dogmatic in your conclusions.

 

[Ouch]

I might agree that 85% who "claim" to be saved are not.
And what is sad is that most have a false assurance.
They base their belief in false teachings.

It is sad.