Loss of salvation???

[Just_A__Follower]

So Jesus is the Living Water?

So what does Matthew 28:19 mean?

19 [g]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,


GO AND MAKE DISIPLES OF ALL THE NATIONS GIVING THEM MY WATER IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.


Makes no sense Follower.


I know what you mean...
but in the bible,,,baptize always refers to water.


Jesus even gave the FORMULA in Matthew 28:19
IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Ouch asked about John 3:5. He equates the water in that verse to baptism. I don’t. Baptism is an outward sign of the inner faith. It symbolizes what God has already done in us. Our new birth is solely His work. Baptism is our testimony to that work. Just as John’s baptism didn’t cause repentance but symbolized it; Christian baptism doesn’t cause rebirth but testifies to it. And yes the formula was and is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

 

[Toknow]

Well I enjoy reading your posts, and we may not agree about everything, but Im sure we do about what matters most. But then, these sites would cease to exist if we all believed identically the same wouldn't they

No matter if we do not agree about something.
What's important is to be civil and not make personal remarks.
@mailmandan and I...who just gave you a like....have been debating works for years...
and we'll never agree - but we are nice to each other.

 

[Toknow]

Ouch asked about John 3:5. He equates the water in that verse to baptism. I don’t. Baptism is an outward sign of the inner faith. It symbolizes what God has already done in us. Our new birth is solely His work. Baptism is our testimony to that work. Just as John’s baptism didn’t cause repentance but symbolized it; Christian baptism doesn’t cause rebirth but testifies to it. And yes the formula was and is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

You're free to believe what you will just.
But it's not what the NT teaches.

I used to believe that the water in John 3:5 referred to amniotic fluid.
Why?
Because right after that Jesus says:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH
WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT

But after years of mulling this over I've come to believe that it refers to baptism.

You say that baptism is a sign of an inner change.
OK...I can go with that too if you're willing to believe that IT IS NECESSARY.

IOW...WHY do we need any "sign"?
WHO is going to see this sign except the church members that are present at the baptism?

Either baptism is something real
or it's a hoax and Jesus was speaking silliness.

 

[Toknow]

Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10) It's not about must or else but WILL.

It's midnight here and I'm tired and will be closing down.

Did you just use the word LEGALISTIC?!!
Haven't heard that word in years.
Time to revive it??
LOL

Will reply to your long post tomorrow morning.
'night.

 

[Tex_MidwesternerNW]

Just like the pharisees of Jesus day

I don't think religion or money need to control life more than discarding attachments and idol worship to me. The bank is like a Lord who dispenses those, giving to them is just a part of religion when being perfectly righteous is appropriate.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You're free to believe what you will just.
But it's not what the NT teaches.

I used to believe that the water in John 3:5 referred to amniotic fluid.
Why?
Because right after that Jesus says:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH
WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT

But after years of mulling this over I've come to believe that it refers to baptism.

You say that baptism is a sign of an inner change.
OK...I can go with that too if you're willing to believe that IT IS NECESSARY.

IOW...WHY do we need any "sign"?
WHO is going to see this sign except the church members that are present at the baptism?

Either baptism is something real
or it's a hoax and Jesus was speaking silliness.

Necessary- think of the thief on the cross. If a believer dies before baptism, he will be saved. Baptism is a testimony to God, to the church that holds us accountable, and an act of surrender. Like communion and prayer, also both commanded, it doesn’t regenerate or earn salvation; only God regenerates and saves. It’s meaningful, not a hoax.

 

[sawdust]

But after years of mulling this over I've come to believe that it refers to baptism.

Therefore you're saying all believers who were never baptized with water will not enter the Kingdom of God.

If being born of the Spirit is necessary, you must concede that water baptism is also necessary.

This is why I do not believe it is referring to water baptism.

 

[spoookeesgh]

People answer that dramatically differently just depending on their denomination chances are. I was raised Baptist and we don't believe that you can lose your salvation. We believe in once saved, always saved. Because to me to say that someone could lose their salvation --- I mean how could they do that? They would lose it through sin I guess? I mean doubting and being frustrated with God and confused and even angry all of those things are normal. And he loves us enough to forgive us for those things. So this is just my humble opinion, but no I do not think you can literally lose your faith.

 

[Genez]

Therefore you're saying all believers who were never baptized with water will not enter the Kingdom of God.

If being born of the Spirit is necessary, you must concede that water baptism is also necessary.

This is why I do not believe it is referring to water baptism.

I believe the problem is that once they find out that it is no longer about water baptism?
That it may scare them a bit, to realize how mistaken their church is concerning this aspect of salvation.

And, scary to realize how so many other churches have been wrong.

Human nature is the culprit....

 

[sawdust]

I believe the problem is that once they find out that it is no longer about water baptism?
That it may scare them a bit, to realize how mistaken their church is concerning this aspect of salvation.

And, scary to realize how so many other churches have been wrong.

Human nature is the culprit....

No, not human nature, fallen human nature. Jesus is fully human, perfectly so.

 

[PennEd]

I think your right about that, sometimes I personally get involved when I'm talking to those who do not follow HIS word and get frustrated.

I will give you credit for being honest, and wish you well.

As for your erroneous doctrines of water Baptism removing your sin, and that true born again children of God can be tossed into hell if they do or don’t do certain things, I see no fruit in further illumination of Scripture to you.

It can be explained to you, but unfortunately, it can’t be comprehended for you.

Hopefully the Holy Spirit will not keep you in such delusions.

 

[Ouch]

I will give you credit for being honest, and wish you well.

As for your erroneous doctrines of water Baptism removing your sin, and that true born again children of God can be tossed into hell if they do or don’t do certain things, I see no fruit in further illumination of Scripture to you.

It can be explained to you, but unfortunately, it can’t be comprehended for you.

Hopefully the Holy Spirit will not keep you in such delusions.

It's best to be honest, JESUS has and still is correcting me does HE you?

We all have to be humble and when in error correct ourselves and repent when we see where we are wrong and fix the problem.

GOD is not no joke, HE says what HE says and means what HE means.

One time GOD flooded the earth do to so much sin, how many people died by the water on the first day of that great flood? MIllION'S, I have no idea but I do know this, they ALL died that day.

8 only 8 were saved by that same water.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I don't say things that I can't back up with HIS word.

In todays age so many people just refuse to OBEY HIS word,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2,
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Mark 16,
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

There are many more.

GET REBORN.

I can see why JESUS also said this in,

Matthew 7,
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

AND THIS,

Matthew 7,
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yep, people working for HIM THOUGHT they were saved!!!

BUT you do you, you point your pridefull fingers at me saying I just can't comprehend and the spirit can help me with my delusions.

IF YOUR NOT BORN AGAIN, YOU WILL PARISH.

REPENT, get baptized TODAY in JESUS name for remission of your sins and PRAY for JESUS to fill you with HIS spirit.

I asked you before with no reply, HAS JESUS FILLED YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST???

HOW WAS YOU BAPTIZED??? LOL, yea I know I kinda sound like Paul in Acts 19.

Which path are you on?

 

[Ouch]

A simple no would’ve been fine.

Why would I think they would be? Because I don’t read John 3:5 as “unless one takes a bath in water” let’s look at it this way and you tell me if it makes sense.
“Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭5‬ ‭ESV

Now let’s rephrase the verse so it says the exact same thing.

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless water and the Spirit give birth to one, that person cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Does it make sense if you look at it that way? NO. It says the same thing but looks weird because physical water is dead. There is no life in it. It cannot give birth to anything. Now could living water give birth? Yes.

Inanimate objects do nothing. We can do stuff with them but they do nothing on their own besides take up space. They definitely don’t give birth. Life comes from life.

Thank you for rephrasing HIS word.

Who gave you premission to do so?

Do you have anyidea what JESUS went through to get us the bible for us to be able to read and understand?

And YOU just make a mockery of it.

SHAME ON YOU.

You make it very clear that you don't like HIS word or how JESUS set up for us to be reborn.

Then DON'T, we all have to take our own path.

It's not to late to REPENT!!!

You don't look at nature, NOTHING LIVES WITHOUT WATER!!!! NOTHING!!!!

If you don't get baptized in JESUS name you will never get rid of your sins!! NEVER.

Sin will not enter Heaven!!! WILL NOT.

IT'S NOT TO LATE, REPENT,

Acts 2,
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Ouch]

Vampires don't like mirrors (self-reflection) either. This guy is certainly sucking the fun out sharing the word.

Who's word are you sharing?

Your's not HIS.

If it's not HIS who's is it?

 

[sawdust]

Who's word are you sharing?

Your's not HIS.

If it's not HIS who's is it?

You're talking rubbish.

I've posted heaps of scripture.

Stop lying.

 

[mailmandan]

As for your erroneous doctrines of water Baptism removing your sin, and that true born again children of God can be tossed into hell if they do or don’t do certain things, I see no fruit in further illumination of Scripture to you.

It can be explained to you, but unfortunately, it can’t be comprehended for you.

Hopefully the Holy Spirit will not keep you in such delusions.

1 Corinthians 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4.

 

[Ouch]

But you have not answered any of our questions. We have answered yours time and time again but you never like the answers we give because you don't agree with them and then falsely claim we don't answer.

Answering the way you don't like is still an answer.

How many baptisms for the Church? And does one have to speak in tongues to be saved?

Stand up and be counted or are you afraid to reveal yourself?

LOL, I'm the one who challange you to prove your lie to be true and your telling me to stand up and be counted for???

Your a bold one, strange how you think?

PS to the best of my knologe you have never reptented for those lies and it's so easy to REPENT, but you chose not to, why?

How to be reborn!!!

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Get baptized in JESUS name to remove our sins
4. Pray for JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit.

John 3:5, Acts 2:38

We are suppose to be the church!

Get rid of sins,

Acts 2,
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

When you are filled with the spirit you will speak in tongues.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10,
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul says when we are filled with the Holy Ghsot we WILL speak in tongues.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

JESUS says when we are filled with the Holy Ghost we WILL speak in tongues.

Mark 16,
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

So time for me to be counted for, if you are not reborn you will not go to Heaven.

You must be baptized to remove your sins, and you must be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues, how else would you know JESUS filled you????

As JESUS says we must be born of Water and of Spirit to enter!!!

What is sad is if you have never heard of that before!!

 

[Ouch]

You're talking rubbish.

I've posted heaps of scripture.

Stop lying.

What did I lie about?

 

[sawdust]

What did I lie about?

If you don't know, there is none that can help save the grace of God. May He have mercy on you. <praying hands>

 

[James456]

A man is powerfully convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit. Tears stream down his cheeks as he sinks to his knees and cries out to God for forgiveness and asks Christ to be his saviour. How will God respond? Will he say to the man:
''I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you've been baptised in water''
Doesn't sound right to me