Key OT Teachings

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TruthDefender said:
Yeah, I think v18 was future tense at that time, but has already happened. Oh yes, the whole earth has been filled with the knowledge of Him already; when He told His 12 apostles to go into all the world and preach the kingdom to every creature.

I believe things as we know it are only temporary. Also, that whole thing about a new heaven/ earth is an enigma; we’re really not given much to go on other than it will be beautiful!
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True, except that the Twelve failed to do much, but Paul picked up their slack, although even now much of the world is ignorant
of the Gospel, thanks mainly to Marxism and Islam.

I think we are not given much to go on regarding the description of heaven because it is impossible for us to imagine alternate reality,
which is why Isaiah described it in earthly terms.
 
TruthDefender said:
King:

-"But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom." Hebrews 1:8 NKJV
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And so we come to Malachi, the last OT book.

Mal. 2:16. “I hate divorce”. This speaks of marital strife, but we know that God hates strife and divisiveness in all types of relationship. God desires peace, but a tactic or scheme used by Satan (2Cor. 2:11, Eph. 6:11) is to divide and conquer: husband from wife, children from parents, friend from friend, country from country, but primarily people from God by making them apathetic about learning God’s Word, which was the teaching point of Jesus’ first temptation in the wilderness (Matt. 4:4).

If God hates divorce, but also hates strife, what option is left for a married couple?
 
GWH said:
And so we come to Malachi, the last OT book.

Mal. 2:16. “I hate divorce”. This speaks of marital strife, but we know that God hates strife and divisiveness in all types of relationship. God desires peace, but a tactic or scheme used by Satan (2Cor. 2:11, Eph. 6:11) is to divide and conquer: husband from wife, children from parents, friend from friend, country from country, but primarily people from God by making them apathetic about learning God’s Word, which was the teaching point of Jesus’ first temptation in the wilderness (Matt. 4:4).

If God hates divorce, but also hates strife, what option is left for a married couple?
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There is only one allowed reason for divorce— infidelity/ adultery.
 
GWH said:
Good point, but when that has not occurred, the only option is for both spouses to work on making their marriage happy
and hopefully heaven on earth.
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Yes, it takes 2, otherwise you just do your best. Idk what you mean by “Heaven on earth?” 😇
 
GWH said:
Good point, but when that has not occurred, the only option is for both spouses to work on making their marriage happy
and hopefully heaven on earth.
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OK
But this whole quote "i hate divorce" is taken completely out of context.

God ALWAYS hates things that hurt us....and divorce hurts.

But ANY abuse that can result in bloodshed God hates MORE. That's the entirety of the passage.

The whole bad hermeneutics that "adultery" is some sort of legalistic moral license for divorce is also wrong.
It's a reference to Israel being unfaithful to God as a harlot is unfaithful to her husband with a more complete understanding that unfaithfulness to God is a reason for divorce that includes adultery but is not limited to just sexual sin....to include such things as abuse, renouncing Jesus as Lord and Savior and etc.

@GWH
You promote full hermeneutics...
Let's discuss the practice of "putting away" a wife without a clean divorce which is directly mentioned specifically in this Malachi passage.
 
JohnDB said:
OK
But this whole quote "i hate divorce" is taken completely out of context.

God ALWAYS hates things that hurt us....and divorce hurts.

But ANY abuse that can result in bloodshed God hates MORE. That's the entirety of the passage.

The whole bad hermeneutics that "adultery" is some sort of legalistic moral license for divorce is also wrong.
It's a reference to Israel being unfaithful to God as a harlot is unfaithful to her husband with a more complete understanding that unfaithfulness to God is a reason for divorce that includes adultery but is not limited to just sexual sin....to include such things as abuse, renouncing Jesus as Lord and Savior and etc.

@GWH
You promote full hermeneutics...
Let's discuss the practice of "putting away" a wife without a clean divorce which is directly mentioned specifically in this Malachi passage.
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We don’t live under the OC. Many things don’t apply anymore.
 
TruthDefender said:
We don’t live under the OC. Many things don’t apply anymore.
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I explained both OC and NC. God is the same regardless because He still cares for us the same way.

The Law concerning how we treat each other is MORE restrictive and fluid all at the same time in the New Testament.

Because God cares about our lives.
We, the Children of God, are not supposed to take abuse from others who claim they are God's kids but act like Satan's.
 
JohnDB said:
I explained both OC and NC. God is the same regardless because He still cares for us the same way.

The Law concerning how we treat each other is MORE restrictive and fluid all at the same time in the New Testament.

Because God cares about our lives.
We, the Children of God, are not supposed to take abuse from others who claim they are God's kids but act like Satan's.
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Your words not mine. You may have tried to explain yourself, but it doesn’t mean you’re correct.

-"You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:4 NKJV

-"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18 NKJV
 
JohnDB said:
OK
But this whole quote "i hate divorce" is taken completely out of context.

God ALWAYS hates things that hurt us....and divorce hurts.

But ANY abuse that can result in bloodshed God hates MORE. That's the entirety of the passage.

The whole bad hermeneutics that "adultery" is some sort of legalistic moral license for divorce is also wrong.
It's a reference to Israel being unfaithful to God as a harlot is unfaithful to her husband with a more complete understanding that unfaithfulness to God is a reason for divorce that includes adultery but is not limited to just sexual sin....to include such things as abuse, renouncing Jesus as Lord and Savior and etc.

@GWH
You promote full hermeneutics...
Let's discuss the practice of "putting away" a wife without a clean divorce which is directly mentioned specifically in this Malachi passage.
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Good points.
Re "putting away": discuss away.
I already made my point.
 
GWH said:
Good points.
Re "putting away": discuss away.
I already made my point.
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A divorced wife was given back the Dowry her parents had given the Groom. However, since men often could not or did not want to afford giving his wife the dowry they would just "put away" their wives and were only required to give them 3 walnut sized balls of sustenance every week. (There were explicit instructions and regulations....they were legalistic jews after all). But the put away wife was not allowed inside their home and was to seek shelter elsewhere.
Unable to return to her parents, most put away wives walked to another town where she would not be recognized....the majority sought out Samaritan towns (where Jews would not go) but many didn't and found elsewhere to go. Roman cities and Jewish towns. They did not have many options as they only had the clothes on their backs. They would do their best to quickly become remarried instead of becoming a prostitute (a slow death sentence)....they would invent elaborate tales of their husband and families dying....and considering the sheer volume of people who died by Roman soldiers and misadventures....believable enough.

However, people are not very gullible. And many guys would marry these put away wives for a while....then would divorce them with a wink and nod to their buddy who would be waiting to marry them next. Essentially literal wife swapping. (Women were a half step above property)

A put away wife did NOT have access to the courts. No judge would grant a put away wife a divorce. Joseph (Mary, mother of Jesus) was planning on "putting away" Mary instead of divorcing her publicly and demanding a refund of the bride price.

Put away wives had little choice....and Jesus also declared that the sin of adultery performed by the wives would be held against their husbands....not the wives. Because the Law of Moses allowed for polygamy...
The husband thought he was all innocent of doing anything.

So.....there you go.
 
JohnDB said:
A divorced wife was given back the Dowry her parents had given the Groom. However, since men often could not or did not want to afford giving his wife the dowry they would just "put away" their wives and were only required to give them 3 walnut sized balls of sustenance every week. (There were explicit instructions and regulations....they were legalistic jews after all). But the put away wife was not allowed inside their home and was to seek shelter elsewhere.
Unable to return to her parents, most put away wives walked to another town where she would not be recognized....the majority sought out Samaritan towns (where Jews would not go) but many didn't and found elsewhere to go. Roman cities and Jewish towns. They did not have many options as they only had the clothes on their backs. They would do their best to quickly become remarried instead of becoming a prostitute (a slow death sentence)....they would invent elaborate tales of their husband and families dying....and considering the sheer volume of people who died by Roman soldiers and misadventures....believable enough.

However, people are not very gullible. And many guys would marry these put away wives for a while....then would divorce them with a wink and nod to their buddy who would be waiting to marry them next. Essentially literal wife swapping. (Women were a half step above property)

A put away wife did NOT have access to the courts. No judge would grant a put away wife a divorce. Joseph (Mary, mother of Jesus) was planning on "putting away" Mary instead of divorcing her publicly and demanding a refund of the bride price.

Put away wives had little choice....and Jesus also declared that the sin of adultery performed by the wives would be held against their husbands....not the wives. Because the Law of Moses allowed for polygamy...
The husband thought he was all innocent of doing anything.

So.....there you go.
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Yes, we can see that Paul improved the status of women (per Gal. 3:28 & Eph. 5:21-33).
 
One of the main parameters for discerning whether an OT is "key" is whether it is cited in the NT
because of its implications for the Gospel, so let us mosey through Matthew and see what might have been missed.

For example, the first OT verse that Matthew cites (in Mat. 1:23) is Isaiah 7:14, but this was included in the presentation,
so moving on to the next OT citation (in Matt. 2:6), we find that it (Mic. 5:2) was also presented, so let us continue to move on
to the third citation (in Matt. 2:15), which is Hosea 11:1, that was not mentioned, so let us consider it now:

Hosea 11:1-2a, "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son, but the more I called Israel,
the further they went from me."

This was omitted originally because it seemed to apply so specifically to the OT family of Israel,
but now we note that Matthew gives it an honorable mention, so we can add it while noting that
God's calling is not irresistible.

What's next?
 
The next OT prophecy is cited in Matt. 2:18, "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children, because they are no more" (Jer. 31:15).

This verse is followed by Jer. 31:16-17, which says not to weep, because the children will return.
This hope is stated in terms of returning to their land as a reward for good works,
but in the NT this hope is amended in terms of going to heaven as the reward for saving faith.
(Rom. 8:24-25, 1Cor. 15:19, Col. 1:27, 1Thes. 5:8, Tit. 1:2 & 2:13)
 
GWH said:
The next OT prophecy is cited in Matt. 2:18, "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children, because they are no more" (Jer. 31:15).

This verse is followed by Jer. 31:16-17, which says not to weep, because the children will return.
This hope is stated in terms of returning to their land as a reward for good works,
but in the NT this hope is amended in terms of going to heaven as the reward for saving faith.
(Rom. 8:24-25, 1Cor. 15:19, Col. 1:27, 1Thes. 5:8, Tit. 1:2 & 2:13)
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Will be great if you can summarised into one sentence
 
A post by TMS prompted the addition of this key OT teaching to our website:

GN 7:4. After Noah’s family was safely in the ark, God waited seven days before executing judgment on sinful humanity in the form of forty days of rain that flooded the earth. This event is reprised in Numbers 14:20-35, which records the Lord’s judgment of Israel’s sins by making that generation wander in the wilderness for forty years before entering the land of Canaan. The writer of Hebrews cited this event (in Heb. 3:7-4:13), stating that the opportunity for entering “God’s rest” or being saved provided “Today” ends when a sinner hardens his heart and refuses to cooperate with God’s voice (cf. Psa. 95:7-8, Isa. 6:9-10 = Matt. 13:14-15).
 
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