Key OT Teachings

[GWH]

The Bible is not a “Creed”. I think that’s a bad word; Jesus did not bring a creed. Men created distortions of His word and denoted it as diff creeds.
The mystery tells us about how to attain salvation. The Bible is purely His word!

Some people pick up languages pretty easily, other people not so much. It helps to be immersed, surrounded by the language daily.

Another way of learning is to listen to movies in that language. I believe the way Americans learn languages in school is poor and inefficient.

Also I ve found out that the Spanish they teach in our schools is European Spanish, not the Spanish from those countries nearest to us, including on the Duolingo APP. I was trying to speak to a Puerto Rican and they did not recognize the words. What a big waste of time! Lol

So you don't like the term "creed" either but do not suggest a better word. Thanks a lot!
Until we come up with something better, I guess I will continue to use kerygma for foundation
and didache for doctrines that build on it (1 Corinthians 3:10-15):

The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

 

[TruthDefender]

Amen I agree God communicates in everyone’s language. To constantly go back trying to re translate and re define things professional world renown translators have already done hundreds of times over is not necassary . Time is better spent learning what the Bible actually says in the same words and language we speak and understand trusting that God sent the gospel out from Jerusalem to be preached to all people and nations . To accomplish that it needed to be written and preached in many languages . English would eventually be very important in the world like it is today so there needed to be a translation in English because the time was coming when English would be a language many spoke and read like it is today .

the gospel couldn’t be preached to every creature unless it’s written in thier words and preached in thier language. God of course is able to accomplish that and so we have English bibles to study that are already translated by professionals and have been scrutinized and re translated for hundreds of years …..even if a person thinks they’ve cracked the code and can re translate all bibles “ mistakes “ anyone disagreeing with you will have thier own version of proof that they aren’t mistakes it then just becomes an argument about translating Ancient Greek or Hebrew lol it’s like a rabbit hole in my opinion

“Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? ……we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:6-8, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yep, also be careful of some versions. Not all are created equal. I read some time back that the NIV is one of the worst versions for adding and subtracting verses, and of course you have bibles written for, as you’ve mentioned, different creeds (which twist/ distort the Truth) to fit THEIR doctrine.

 

[GWH]

Yep, also be careful of some versions. Not all are created equal. I read some time back that the NIV is one of the worst versions for adding and subtracting verses, and of course you have bibles written for, as you’ve mentioned, different creeds (which twist/ distort the Truth) to fit THEIR doctrine.

No version is perfect, and some may be better than others for various reasons, but just out of curiosity,
where did you read that about the NIV and what verses did the NIV add or subtract? Thanks.

 

[TruthDefender]

So you don't like the term "creed" either but do not suggest a better word. Thanks a lot!
Until we come up with something better, I guess I will continue to use kerygma for foundation
and didache for doctrines that build on it (1 Corinthians 3:10-15):

The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per Gal. 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time. The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There was way too much in your writing to cover so I only responded to your 1st 2 paragraphs——

-Would you not agree that creedS are different because they change His word to align more with their own? This is why we have so many different Christian doctrineS. Do you agree??

-Jesus commissioned the 11, Judas was already gone. ——

"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:16, 19-20 NKJV
————————-
Your comment: (I guess I will continue to use kerygma for foundation and didache for doctrines that build on it).

The Bible has ONE doctrine (the Gospel), not plural—-“DoctrineS”.

"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
I Corinthians 3:11 NKJV

Paul said it twice in this passage:
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:6-9 NKJV

"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."
II John 1:9-11 NKJV

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Revelation 22:18-19 NKJV

 

[TruthDefender]

No version is perfect, and some may be better than others for various reasons, but just out of curiosity,
where did you read that about the NIV and what verses did the NIV add or subtract? Thanks.

Oh like I said decades ago. However, I found this site to be similar:
https://historycollection.com/18-alteration-made-to-the-bible-and-its-consequences/

It would seem the 1611 KJV is probably the best; I’m not fond of old English, though. This is why I only use the NKJV.

 

[GWH]

There was way too much in your writing to cover so I only responded to your 1st 2 paragraphs——

-Would you not agree that creedS are different because they change His word to align more with their own? This is why we have so many different Christian doctrineS. Do you agree??

-Jesus commissioned the 11, Judas was already gone. ——

"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
Matthew 28:16, 19-20 NKJV
————————-
Your comment: (I guess I will continue to use kerygma for foundation and didache for doctrines that build on it).

The Bible has ONE doctrine (the Gospel), not plural—-“DoctrineS”.

"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
I Corinthians 3:11 NKJV

Paul said it twice in this passage:
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:6-9 NKJV

"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds."
II John 1:9-11 NKJV

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Revelation 22:18-19 NKJV

Always feel free to respond with small bites. I agree that most people do not share my definition of creed, which is the minimum essential doctrine implied by the simplest normative statement of God's requirement for salvation, which I cite as being “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).

I have done my best to create this type of creed, and I invite critique about how to improve it. Changing GW to align with our own views is too typical on CC, but this is why I strive to promote agreement regarding the essential foundation so that we can disagree
more agreeably regarding the rest, but some folks talk as if the rest is the best and ignore the part that is simple enough for a child of twelve to understand.

Again, there is one foundation, but a plethora of secondary doctrines.

Over...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yep, also be careful of some versions. Not all are created equal. I read some time back that the NIV is one of the worst versions for adding and subtracting verses, and of course you have bibles written for, as you’ve mentioned, different creeds (which twist/ distort the Truth) to fit THEIR doctrine.

I actually love the original 1981 niv and kjv authorized versions I’ve studied both together for probably 40 years and find that they are saying the same things .

it’s true different versions have different words but its becaue if you’re translating Ancient Greek into English 400 years ago or in 1981 it’s going to have alot of different words and even concepts will change to communicate the original message.

It’s only my own belief for me and. Ot e eryone else but I’m okay with kjv niv nlt nkjv ect even most translations in good with . I have my personal favorites but mostly if someone is reading a Bible they are going to hear the message about Jesus the lord suffering and dying for thier sins and being raised up again

they will hear his teachings in the gospel they can read the ot law and prophets ect and are going to get the same message even if they’ve read a different languages version of if they’ve read old English from 1500 or modern English from 1980 or even language today words evolve and change but the message always comes through

again just my own opinion not something anyone else has to believe I don’t think gods word requires Intellect and scrutiny and exhaustive re - translations but belief in what we learn from studying it

 

[TruthDefender]

Always feel free to respond with small bites. I agree that most people do not share my definition of creed, which is the minimum essential doctrine implied by the simplest normative statement of God's requirement for salvation, which I cite as being “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).

I have done my best to create this type of creed, and I invite critique about how to improve it. Changing GW to align with our own views is too typical on CC, but this is why I strive to promote agreement regarding the essential foundation so that we can disagree
more agreeably regarding the rest, but some folks talk as if the rest is the best and ignore the part that is simple enough for a child of twelve to understand.

Again, there is one foundation, but a plethora of secondary doctrines.

Over...

if you read my statements, you would understand that “CreedS” is not acceptable in God’s eyes; it’s not Scriptural.

 

[GWH]

if you read my statements, you would understand that “CreedS” is not acceptable in God’s eyes; it’s not Scriptural.

"Creed" means "faith" or "a set of beliefs", so how is that not Scriptural?!

 

[TruthDefender]

"Creed" means "faith" or "a set of beliefs", so how is that not Scriptural?!

Once again, this is not a Scriptural concept, it’s man made. The Bible doesn’t have creedS, it has ONE doctrine.

 

[GWH]

Once again, this is not a Scriptural concept, it’s man made. The Bible doesn’t have creedS, it has ONE doctrine.

Faith is not a Scriptural concept?!
(Why do I feel trolled?)

What is the ONE doctrine the Bible has?

 

[TruthDefender]

Faith is not a Scriptural concept?!
(Why do I feel trolled?)

What is the ONE doctrine the Bible has?

Wow! The doctrine of Jesus Christ; what you find in the NT. That’s it! Nothing added or taken away, just pure 1st century doctrine.

Faith is very much Scriptural! Were you trying to be cheeky? There is only ONE faith that I read about in the NT.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[GWH]

Wow! The doctrine of Jesus Christ; what you find in the NT. That’s it! Nothing added or taken away, just pure 1st century doctrine.

Faith is very much Scriptural! Were you trying to be cheeky? There is only ONE faith that I read about in the NT.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Exactly, and I was trying to get you to see that "faith in God as Savior" in Heb. 11:6 is the Gospel "creed" or what can be called "kerygma".
However, the last time I checked the Bible includes the OT, and the NT contains many teachings other than that cited in Heb. 11:6, right?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow! The doctrine of Jesus Christ; what you find in the NT. That’s it! Nothing added or taken away, just pure 1st century doctrine.

Faith is very much Scriptural! Were you trying to be cheeky? There is only ONE faith that I read about in the NT.

“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11‬:‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I think he’s saying “ his creed “ or “ his faith “ … is the doctrine of Jesus Christ .

 

[GWH]

I think he’s saying “ his creed “ or “ his faith “ … is the doctrine of Jesus Christ .

Yes, and I explain my faith/creed/foundational belief as follows:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

However, the NT contains many more teachings that this foundation, which is what we are studying on the Didache thread.
I have no idea what TD finds so difficult to understand or disagreeable.

 

[TruthDefender]

I think he’s saying “ his creed “ or “ his faith “ … is the doctrine of Jesus Christ .

Ok, call it whatever, but there is only One faith/ doctrine, not multiple faiths/ doctrines. There is only One that can save.
You can only read about one gospel in the NT……

 

[GWH]

Ok, call it whatever, but there is only One faith/ doctrine, not multiple faiths/ doctrines. There is only One that can save.
You can only read about one gospel in the NT……

Doctrine means teaching. There is one doctrine about how to be saved, which is called the Gospel in the NT,
and additional doctrines about how those saved should behave, which may be called the didache, another word meaning teaching.
Discussing the Gospel doctrine is the topic on the Kerygma thread, and discussing the didachaic doctrines is done on the Didache thread.

 

[TruthDefender]

Doctrine means teaching. There is one doctrine about how to be saved, which is called the Gospel in the NT,
and additional doctrines about how those saved should behave, which may be called the didache, another word meaning teaching.
Discussing the Gospel doctrine is the topic on the Kerygma thread, and discussing the didachaic doctrines is done on the Didache thread.

I believe in İsa Mesih'in Müjdesi. This is the only thing that can save you!

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, and I explain my faith/creed/foundational belief as follows:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or Creator God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), at which moment God’s loving Holy Spirit of Christ indwells/baptizes the believer into the church (Rev. 3:20, Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13).
5. Loving Christ Jesus as Lord (Luke 2:11), God the Son (Matt. 16:16) or God in the human dimension (Col. 2:9) means reflecting divine love as empowered by the Holy Spirit, thereby obeying His command to love one another (Matt. 7:21, 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2), which will eventually achieve spiritual maturity on earth and heaven after Christ returns at God’s resurrection (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Phil. 3:12-16, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

However, the NT contains many more teachings that this foundation, which is what we are studying on the Didache thread.
I have no idea what TD finds so difficult to understand or disagreeable.

You using foreign words which aren’t necessary to understand the Bible, written in English. Anlıyor musun?

 

[GWH]

You using foreign words which aren’t necessary to understand the Bible, written in English. Anlıyor musun?

English isn't necessary for understanding the Bible in foreign countries.
Don't be xenophobic!