The evidence of a 1000 year reign is explicit statements of such in Revelation, which you reject. That really is the heart of the matter.
Israel.
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The evidence of a 1000 year reign is explicit statements of such in Revelation, which you reject. That really is the heart of the matter.
yeah even though Jesus taught it to believers Paul taught it to believers and Peter taught it to believers it’s a lesson to believers to remain diligent comes from Jesus teachings in the gospel
“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
Matthew 24:42-44 KJV
look at the context of both Peter and Paul’s usage they are exhorting diligence and remaining faithful like Jesus was because he will return when no one expects him to do the idea is to be ready and watch
Nope I don’t reject anything I just understand revelation is an apacalypse not literal doctrine
You're assuming that is referring to Jesus, which really makes no sense in the context of Revelation. It is written that there will be saviors (plural) on Mt Zion, which prophecy the 144,000 standing on Mt Zion in Rev 14:1 obviously borrows from. So we can infer that the manchild in Rev 12 is referring to that company instead of Christ himself. And they are seized to Mt Zion, whereas Jesus was taken up in clouds to Mt Zion, not seized there.
And saviours shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S. Obadiah 1:21
The last part of that verse is an obvious reference to this verseAnd the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:15
Apocalypse means unveiling, which can be described in both literal an allegorical terms. Assuming that Revelation can only be interpreted allegorically is like dispensationalists assuming that any prophecy mentioning Israel can only be interpreted 'literally' as pertaining to natural Israel. That's because they don't have spiritual eyes that see.
Yeah it makes no sense that a man child was promised to a beautiful woman with a crown of twelve stars clothed with the sun and moon like Joseph’s dream of Israel who was promised the son of man who would rule all nations with a rod of iron lol no sense at all that could be about Jesus …like the Bible testifies throughout
Yeah I’m probably just blinded by all the scripture making the other thing clear and don’t have the spiritual eyes or something . But I’m okay with what’s written repetitively and clearly being true
abut again I think no differently of you it’s just tbat we don’t see this the same I’m alright with that
“Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
Mark 13:35-37 KJV
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
1 Thessalonians 5:1-2, 4-6 KJV
“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”
Revelation 16:15 KJV
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:10-13 KJV
Thank you .....yes he is speaking of or to unbelieving people's.
Now John in Revelation does the same in the letter to the churches. Calling that church synagogue of Satan. Jesus also used this term as to children of the devil in reference to the pharisees. So we have a pattern here. I am working on a answer to some of the questions posed here as to the temple rebuilt? Why. The reign of Christ. Why . Using Daniel's prophecy and others. Also why Paul does not speak of reign of Christ.
Im looking at cause and effects. Jesus said these things must pass before he returns....the question is why and what effects does it have. Lord willing I'll find some common ground we can all agree on.
It struck me as very strange but so intriguing that the same thing happening in Israel is also happening in the church in that we are divided on today's Israel......
He did, but he didn't specify the duration (which I added in brackets below), if he even knew it. First the resurrection, then Christ's reign until death itself is abolished and cast in the lake of fire (Christ did not destroy death at the cross; he destroyed the power of sin), and then he will turn his kingdom over to the father.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [1000 year reign of Christ] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:22-28
Yes agree, and it very stated right at the beginning that the book is about the revealing of Christ Jesus.
Not about matching current events and seeing how and when it lines up with the Book.
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Agree, also helpful to keep in mind the language and the symbolism is to protect those receiving the letters, that is why the beast and other people and places are not named but are given "covert" names, but the people to whom the letters were written could put it together.
That is another error made, thinking the authors of the letters are addressing unbelievers, unless specifically stated I would agree all letters are written with believers in mind.
Chilioi g5507 can be a precise symbolic, representative, rounded, or literal 1,000.
I think it is fair to go with symbolic/representative, as in representing a long period of time given the nature of the prose in the Book of Revelation.
Its believed by some scholars that 1000 was the highest number to be known during the time period of the writtings. That is why they use it multipled by its self to express things beyond 1000. Such as thousand of thousand and 10 thousands ect.
But the term a thousand yrs. As a day and a day a thousand yrs to the Lord is applied to the reign of Christ because it is titled
IN THAT DAY or The day of the Lord.
John 11:25-26:
“Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?’”
“Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?’”
King James Bible
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth.” 11Then I looked, and I heard the voices of many angels and living creatures and elders encircling the throne, and their number was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands. 12In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing!”…
;
Daniel 7:10
A river of fire was flowing, coming out from His presence. Thousands upon thousands attended Him, and myriads upon myriads stood before Him. The court was convened, and the books were opened.
Psalm 68:17
The chariots of God are tens of thousands—thousands of thousands are they; the Lord is in His sanctuary as He was at Sinai.
@God-fearing wasn't saying that that passage was written to unbelievers, but that the lord comes as a thief in the night to unbelievers, ie, they don't know of his coming until he has already come and taken from them the opportunity to avoid his wrath. Believers who watch are in the light and won't be taken by surprise.
Yes that makes sense, even though I am not a futurist.
Oops, thank you, I was perusing and read too quickly.
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