If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?
- Thread starter BigRIJoe
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1st, because the thief repented, salvation was granted by God's grace to the thief. paradise is another word for Abraham's Bosom. in the O.T., before Jesus died, believers & atheists went to Hades. they were separated though. believers were in the "paradise of God". in the O.T., people were under the law, the N.T. is now God's grace. after Jesus' death, when a Christian dies, he or she immediately, goes in the presence of God.
Punishment that is everlasting
Eternal punishment or punishment that lasts for eternity.
If I die and cease to exist for eternity that would be everlasting punishment.
It does not mean being punished for ever. Or burning forever.
How can somebody who has ceased to exist be enduring everlasting punishment? If a person has ceased to exist, they cannot experience anything, whether punishment or reward. All the warnings Jesus gave about the dreadful nature of everlasting punishment would not make sense if death just meant ceasing to exist. For example:
““But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!” (Lu 12:5 NKJV)
Why fear if all that happens at death is that a person ceases to exist?
Does it mean they need to be alive?
Do they need to be suffering pain?
Ecc 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
If they are not suffering, in what sense is it everlasting punishment? You might say that it is punishment while we are alive not to have eternal life to look forward to, but just ceasing to exist, but once you cease to exist you can no longer experience punishment.
Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Verse. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The second death is death, not eternal life.
God is just and will punish everyone fairly
A 70 year life of sin does not = eternity in painful punishment.
God is love not a monster.
I cannot agree that Jesus would tell people to fear hell, or that hell is eternal, where "their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched," if people who went to hell immediately ceased to exist. I think I will leave the discussion for the time being, as it cannot be very interesting for our fellow forum members to see us arguing the same or similar points. (I'm not blaming you, I hasten to add.)
There is two resurrections
Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
All will come to life. To eternal life with Jesus or to eternal death
This is when punishment will be served.
The unsaved will recieve their punishment and die.
They do not live for ever.
Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hell. "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire" . This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; It is used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of the unsaved.
If your raised in the second resurrection (of damnation) the unsaved group, and see or experiance the glory of Jesus, that will be unbearable, and seeing the saved and glory of heaven knowing you have missed out, that would be torture. Knowing the choices you made and pain you caused will hurt, all will be opened up and there will be no where to hide.
Justice will be served.
What sin is worth an eternity of painfully experiencing suffering.
God is the source of life. And He will allow the unsaved to cease when justice is served.
Rev 21:4 .....neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Not perish implies that those that don't believe will perish.
Justice will be served.
What sin is worth an eternity of painfully experiencing suffering.
God is the source of life. And He will allow the unsaved to cease when justice is served.
Rev 21:4 .....neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Not perish implies that those that don't believe will perish.
Jesus told us about Lazarus and the rich man.. Neither of them was alseep when they died and entered into eternity.. Jesus said that Lazarus was being comforted by Abraham while the rich man was suffering in hell.. Both where awake not sleeping..
Also when Jesus was transfigured on the mountain The Prophet Elias and Moses appeard with Him and talked to Jesus.. So Elias and Moses where not Sleeping..
Also in the throne room in heaven in the book of Revelation it shows saints making requests of the LORD..
(Revelation 6:9-10) "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: {10} And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
None of them where sleeping..
So i cannot support the Soul Sleeping doctrine..
The parable was not literal.
It was teaching a principle.
Like the seeds and the sheep and goats we do not take that literally.
We need wedding garments which is symbolic of Christ's righteousness.
Not literal clothing.
Elijah never died.
And Moses was raised shortly after he died, they are exceptions. King David is not alive.
The first fruits were raised when Jesus died.
Look at practical examples ...
Mat 9:23-25
23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise, 24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. 25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
She was dead and Jesus called it sleep.
Where was she when Jesus brought her to life? She didn't complain about being in heaven and being brought back to Earth.
Joh 11:11-13
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
If Lazarus is already awake how can Jesus say "I go that I may awake him."
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
4 days he was dead for and Jesus was going to wake him up.
There is no mention of consciousness in death.
Joh 11:23-26
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
How do you explain the 2 resurrections?
The first at the second coming of Jesus and the second after the Millennium.
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I keep thinking of Moses though. Nowhere in the Bible does it say he was raised back to life shortly after he died. When he met up with Jesus at the transfiguration, he didn't act like he hadn't seen Jesus for several thousand years. He acted like anyone would who has been spending time with family and friends that they see everyday.
And no one touched him like they did Jesus when He resurrected. No one could verify if he was already given an immortal body. The same thing when Samuel who died already appeared before Saul when Saul consulted with a medium.
Both seemed to have a body in their living likeness to represent them when God wills or allows for them to appear before people who are still alive. But neither one acted like they just came out of a deep sleep. They were fully conscious.
I keep thinking of Moses though. Nowhere in the Bible does it say he was raised back to life shortly after he died. When he met up with Jesus at the transfiguration, he didn't act like he hadn't seen Jesus for several thousand years. He acted like anyone would who has been spending time with family and friends that they see everyday.
And no one touched him like they did Jesus when He resurrected. No one could verify if he was already given an immortal body. The same thing when Samuel who died already appeared before Saul when Saul consulted with a medium.
Both seemed to have a body in their living likeness to represent them when God wills or allows for them to appear before people who are still alive. But neither one acted like they just came out of a deep sleep. They were fully conscious.
Do you know the word horama? That is what Jesus called the transfiguration: a spiritual (supernatural) vision.
Y'all act like Peter thinking Moses and Elijah were actually there.
And where exactly do you think Moses had been hanging out with Jesus? In heaven?
Jesus said in John 3 v 13, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."
There are a lot of passages that talk about the dead being asleep.
Sleep though is suppose to be a metaphor for death.
Remember the dead child in Matthew 5:39, He went inside and asked, “Why all this commotion and weeping? The child is not dead, but asleep.”
If we are actually asleep after dying,imagine how long some have slept. And are even decomposed to the point they are dust.
So,what then of the soul if the body is gone? Where does it rest?
The soul actually returns to God. Which is why Jesus could tell the thief on that day , he would be with Jesus=God in paradise.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Soul?
What is the soul in your understanding?
Don't use the modern definitions because they are so corrupted with Spiritualism.
Use the bible to define and explain a soul.
This is a common mistake by many Christians today. They understand SOUL in the light of new age spiritualism which is not what the Bible teaches.