If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?

[TMS]

If soul sleep is true, Christ lied to the criminal who died next to him.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This has been discussed many times.

Jesus did not go to paradise that day (Friday), Jesus said either.... that day the criminal would be with Jesus in paradise. Which we know did not happen.
Or...
Jesus was telling the crominal that day,,, that he would be (in the future) with Him in paradise.

Change the comma,,,,,,

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[NilsForChrist]

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This has been discussed many times.

Jesus did not go to paradise that day (Friday), Jesus said either.... that day the criminal would be with Jesus in paradise. Which we know did not happen.
Or...
Jesus was telling the crominal that day,,, that he would be (in the future) with Him in paradise.

Change the comma,,,,,,

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

I'm quite familiar with this argument. But I don't see it as true. Why would he say "I tell you today/this day"?

 

[soberxp]

When I was in high school, I was so upset about something and I had to escape from the reality. I stayed in the Internet bar for a long time. I used games to escape from the reality and didn't sleep a lot for more than a month. I suppose anyone else would have died by now? I've seen similar news about someone who died in an Internet cafe after indulging in video games.

I went straight home and slept for three days and three nights.......I didn't dream. I woke up feeling that I had been in a dark place.I suppose I might have died once before?

It's death while asleep

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Why would he say "I tell you today/this day"?

Maybe it's a figure of speech for something like this:

"Jesus answered him, "Mark my words: you will be with me in paradise."

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe human life is entirely physical, so that when
Jesus died, he ceased to exist. That being their official position; they cannot
allow for him to be in paradise the very day of his crucifixion because that
would indicate he passed thru death as a sentient being-- the other guy too.

They also believe Jesus' crucified dead body is still dead and its remains are
squirreled away on Earth somewhere in a location, and a condition, known
only to God. In other words: their Jesus no longer exists: he's gone; poof!
And the Jesus that folks saw after his resurrection was an angel disguised in
something similar to one of James Cameron's genetically engineered
organisms, viz: an Avatar.
_

 

[Mem]

I'm quite familiar with this argument. But I don't see it as true. Why would he say "I tell you today/this day"?

It strikes me as Jesus alluding to 'this day' as the thief's day of salvation, per Psalm 85-7-8 and Hebrews 3:15 "Today, if you hear His voice, (and) do not harden your hearts..."

 

[CS1]

What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?

Jesus said " today you will be WITH ME" to the thief on the cross.

 

[NilsForChrist]

Jesus said " today you will be WITH ME" to the thief on the cross.

Exactly.

 

[Yahshua]

I'm quite familiar with this argument. But I don't see it as true. Why would he say "I tell you today/this day"?

It's a figure of speech to show strong emphasis.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD

^It's not a statement of choosing who Israel will particularly serve from one day to the next but is a command for them to state emphatically who Israel will serve.


Genesis 31:48
And Laban said, This heap is a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed;

^A covenant was made between Laban and Jacob, where Laban established a witness emphatically.

----

One's word is their bond.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

And Laban said, This heap is a witness between me and thee this day.

So Jesus established crucifixion day as a memorial of the promise he made
to the malefactor?

I seriously doubt it because Jesus memorialized that day with the Lord's Supper,
i.e. "this do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19-20 and 1Cor 11:23-26)

* Beware of sophistry; defined by Webster's as subtly deceptive reasoning or
argumentation. (cf. Eph 4:14)
_

 

[Yahshua]

.



So Jesus established crucifixion day as a memorial of the promise he made
to the malefactor?

I seriously doubt it because Jesus memorialized that day with the Lord's Supper,
i.e. "this do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19-20 and 1Cor 11:23-26)

* Beware of sophistry; defined by Webster's as subtly deceptive reasoning or
argumentation. (cf. Eph 4:14)
_

Beware of strawmen arguments too.

 

[walter549]

King David died a long time ago, and is in God's memory and will be resurrected in the future on judgment day on the last day, he did not ascend to heaven. -Mark 12:27, Acts 2:34

Many people think that when we die we automatically live forever in heaven or hell but the scriptures explain these words.

Isaiah 26:19
New Living Translation
But those who die in the LORD will live; their bodies will rise again! Those who sleep in the earth will rise up and sing for joy! For your life-giving light will fall like dew on your people in the place of the dead!

Psalm 37:29
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And the righteous ones inherit the Earth and dwell upon it for eternity.

Ecclesiastes 1:4
New International Version
Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

John 6:40
New King James Version
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus says these words:

Matthew 5:5
New International Version
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

 

[walter549]

Accordingly, a fifth-century Curetonian Syriac version renders Jesus’ reply: “Amen, I say to thee to-day that with me thou shalt be in the Garden of Eden.'” --Luke 23:43

click to see this website page & info:
https://www.textkit.com/t/comma-placement/855

Also:
kai eutys eipen moi hoti amen amen semeron lego soi, met’ emou ese en to parad[eiso]. (“And immediately he said to me: ‘Most truly today I tell you, You will be with me in Paradise.’”)–Descent into Hades, an apocryphal writing of the fourth century C.E. Text found in Novum Testamentum Graece, editio octava critica maior, by C. Tischendorf, Vol. I, Leipzig,869, under Luke 23:43.
ho de eipen auto* semeron lego soi aletheian hina se ekho eis ton
parad[eison] met’ emou. (“And he said to him: ‘Today I tell you the truth,
that I should have you in Paradise with me.’”)–Gospel of Nicodemus (=Acts of Pilate)b287, an apocryphal writing of the fourth or fifth century C.E. Text found in Novum Testamentum Graece, editio octava critica maior, by C. Tischendorf, Vol. I, Leipzig, 1869, under Luke 23:43.

Therefore, at least from the fourth century C.E. until well into the twelfth
century C.E. there were readers who understood the text at Luke 23:43 as “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” On that very day,when Jesus died, he was in Sheol or Hades, and not in Paradise. (Psalms 16:8-11; Acts 2:22-32) He was dead and in the tomb until the third day and was then resurrected as “the firstfruits” of the resurrection. (Acts 10:40;1 Corinthians 15:20; Colossians 1:18 ) Thus, the word “today” at Luke 23:43 does not give the time of the evildoer’s being with Jesus in Paradise._

 

[walter549]

Matthew 27:52
Graves opened, and many of God's people were raised to life.
Contemporary English Version

New King James Version
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Jesus says: Graves opened, and many of God's people were raised to life.

Think about it where does Jesus say many of God's people are coming from?
"Graves opened"

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Soul sleep correct?
"What Saith The Scripture?":

'Confusion' of What Death Is...

Amen.

 

[tablet123]

What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them( did not receive their glorified body yet) that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

It appears that when a saint dies they go to be with Jesus but they will not receive their glorified body until the resurrection.

Moses and Elijah were with Jesus at His transfiguration.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But if the saints that have died are with Jesus then how can any saints be asleep that rise first.

Unless it is the Old Testament saints that believed in the coming Messiah.

Or the dead in Christ rise first means they receive their glorified body then those alive are caught up after and receive their glorified body.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

But to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord as testified the thief went to be with Jesus.

So either the dead rise first is the Old Testament saints or they receive their glorified body first.

 

[TMS]

I'm quite familiar with this argument. But I don't see it as true. Why would he say "I tell you today/this day"?

Because, Jesus did not got to Heaven on Friday, Saturday or Sunday Morning.

Read the Bible and the truth will be revealed.

Mat 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
It fits with the fact that Jesus had not been to heaven
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
There was no comor in the original text.

It was added by interpreters.

 

[DavidLamb]

Because, Jesus did not got to Heaven on Friday, Saturday or Sunday Morning.

Read the Bible and the truth will be revealed.

Mat 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
It fits with the fact that Jesus had not been to heaven
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
There was no comor in the original text.

It was added by interpreters.

Two things struck me as I read your post. First, you say that Jesus had not been to heaven. Where do you think He was before He was born in Bethlehem? He Himself said that He had come from heaven:

““For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” (Joh 6:38 NKJV)

Second, what would be the point of saying the word "today" if all Jesus meant was when He was saying the words? The thief was there, on the cross beside the cross of Jesus, so he heard the words Jesus was saying, and had no need for Jesus to specify on which day the words were being spoken?

 

[TMS]

The first lie by the Devil was

You will surely not die...

The lie that we live forever is one of the worst deceptions. It is in most false religions and spiritualism. The pagan or babilonian religions all taught that you do not die. Can you see why the devil wants christians to believe these evil teachings?

The word of God is clear.

Ecc 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead perish and have no knowledge of anything.

Like a deep sleep.

King David??? Is he in heaven?

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Only God can give life. And the resurrection is when He comes the second time.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

It might go against your traditional beliefs but you will save yourself from the devils deception by understanding the bible truth. The truth will set you free.

 

[TMS]

Two things struck me as I read your post. First, you say that Jesus had not been to heaven. Where do you think He was before He was born in Bethlehem? He Himself said that He had come from heaven:

““For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” (Joh 6:38 NKJV)

Second, what would be the point of saying the word "today" if all Jesus meant was when He was saying the words? The thief was there, on the cross beside the cross of Jesus, so he heard the words Jesus was saying, and had no need for Jesus to specify on which day the words were being spoken?

Okay, Jesus had not been to heaven since His death, so it was impossible for Jesus to be with the thief in Heaven on Friday or any time after His dead for at lest 24 hours. I think you understand the facts shown in the events.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The thing that I find so sad is that there are multiple bible verses to plainly back up soul sleep. And a few verses that people twist to support that the soul live forever. But people will believe what they want to believe.

Soul sleep is biblical but to teach that the soul can not die is spiritualism and devilish.

Gen 3:2-5
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who will you believe??
.... God said you will die.
....the devil said you will not surely die.

 

[TMS]

What kind of inherent nature does man possess? How did God create us? Does he have a mortal nature or an immortal nature? According to the dictionary, the word “mortal” means “subject to death,” and the word “immortal” means “not subject to death.” Simply stated then, we are asking whether God created man with a nature that could die or with the power of an endless life. The answer to this significant question is found in Job 4:17, “Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?” There is the word we are looking for! Man is mortal. He is subject to death. God did not make him without the capacity to deteriorate and die. The fact is, only God has that inherent power of eternal existence.

We could have been living without death if we had no sin, but we only have life because of God. Life comes from God.

We were made mortal.

Mortal = subject to death.