Do you believe Revelation is literal, physical, spiritual, something in between, or just another completely different perspective! I would love to see your thoughts and your logic behind them.
I would like some perspectives on Revelation.
- Thread starter JesusIsSovereign
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Virtually everything in the old testament is allegorical. It's only purpose is to point to Christ. All shadows/types in the OT, of which there are many, are fulfilled in Christ.
Revelation is extremely symbolic
byw literal can mean physical or spiritual depending on what the author intended. For example, Christ said only those who drink his blood and eat his flesh have life in them. Is that literally true? Doth cannibalism bringeth forth eternal life? Of course not. His speech is allegorically true pointing to a spiritual reality, not physically true. but it is literally the truth
Revelation is extremely symbolic
byw literal can mean physical or spiritual depending on what the author intended. For example, Christ said only those who drink his blood and eat his flesh have life in them. Is that literally true? Doth cannibalism bringeth forth eternal life? Of course not. His speech is allegorically true pointing to a spiritual reality, not physically true. but it is literally the truth
it's definitely the 1st 3. it is the most difficult book of the Bible to understand. the Bible says if you read Revelation, you will be blessed.
Revelation perspectives?
The Rightly Divided one starts here: Revelation Studies Rev. 1:1-10
Enjoy!
Amen.
The Rightly Divided one starts here: Revelation Studies Rev. 1:1-10
Enjoy!
Amen.
The book of Revelation is the bookend of the book of Deuteronomy.
In Deuteronomy, God covenants with Israel. After a preamble and a historical prologue, the terms or stipulations of the covenant are given. Next, the sanctions for failing to keep the covenant are discussed. And finally, how to move forward after sanctions is discussed.
You find the same outline in the book of Revelation. A preamble is followed by a historical prologue. Then a reiteration of the stipulations of the covenant, followed by a reiteration of the coming sanctions for their failure to keep the terms of the covenant. Lastly, God's plan for moving forward is revealed.
In Deuteronomy, God covenants with Israel. After a preamble and a historical prologue, the terms or stipulations of the covenant are given. Next, the sanctions for failing to keep the covenant are discussed. And finally, how to move forward after sanctions is discussed.
You find the same outline in the book of Revelation. A preamble is followed by a historical prologue. Then a reiteration of the stipulations of the covenant, followed by a reiteration of the coming sanctions for their failure to keep the terms of the covenant. Lastly, God's plan for moving forward is revealed.
When Jesus fed the 5,000, it happened thusly, in Jn 6: 14-15:
Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
Then in Mt 6: 19:
So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.
And in Jn 6: 22:
The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone;
Then in Jn 6: 24:
When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.
And in Jn 6: 26-27:
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Jn 6: 33:
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jn 6: 41:
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Jn 6: 48-51:
I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jn 6: 61:
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Jn 6: 63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jn 6: 66:
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Jn 6: 67-69:
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
In this way, Jesus put an end to having the people who were of the 5,000 making him a King by force...
The verse to focus upon is Jn 6: 63!
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
BTW, I consider only the obvious to be allegorical which isn't all that much. The rest is up to the reader to discern what is spiritual and what is literal. The truth feels exactly the same as does error. Obedience to the Spirit opens the door to illumination! Then, study paves the way to the truth, which comes to us here a little, and there a little. Obedience to the Spirit is better than doctrinal accuracy!
It's common for some people to claim how symbolic Revelation is, usually saying it's the most symbolic book but I think that's an exaggeration. I find the book to be mostly literal like the letters to the churches and the many times John saw activities happening in heaven and on the Earth and the description of life in the eternity, talking to various angels and seing past events etc. There's some symbolic language like the dragon and the beasts and the winepress etc.
I believe it is largely metaphorical and most of it future, though some is past, some may be starting to get fulfilled, and some of it is ongoing (ex. The letters to the churches). There is a compelling case for the stars being about the state of the constellations when Jesus was born. For more on that check out "The Star of Bethlehem" which was also recently referenced on the 700 club for Christmas.
I disagree on the grounds that it gives you the tone of what is coming even if it isn't literal. I say this because I have had prophetic dreams where the emotion of the dream was very precisely replicated in the physical at a later time though all the details were different. For example, I dreamed about a helpless child with a deadly disese. A few days later I was watching a football game when a player took a bad hit and was knocked out to the point that he might be paralyzed. I realized later that my emotional response was exactly the same as the dream even though the events were very different.
When reading Revelations, there is a time that it is in reading, While in heaven and here on earth is the perspective I see going on in there. To figure it out exactly, nope, I do not think anyone will. Yet there are those that think they know and got it down. Sorry, how can that be, when evil itself did not see what having or getting Jesus to be killed by the Priests in his day, was doing or going to do? Col. 1,2
If Evil knew Jesus would be risen and never die again and that being dead would and did take away us the people under Law as reconciled to see to uphold the Law as good, then Evil would not have ever encouraged Jesus's death, but it did and he went through that willingly, stressfully but willingly. It was and is for su the People to get freed from under Law. To uphold Law.
Therefore Revelations can not be understood completely. Only Father and Son know what is going on and what will be and what is allowed for now for a righteous reason, for us to stand in, no matter how it might appear now, since God is the one and only one to this day Good.
therefore I read it, and see as it is reading to me from God, sometimes I see I am in Heaven learning this truth and other times back here on earth learning just to love all as called,
If my enemy is hungry feed them the love of God, not tell them they have to do or else attitude of religions all over the world that man has built, Rather the Church (Ecclesia) God has built Hebrews 8:1-4
The Book Of Revelation when combined with the complementary book of Daniel forecasts the entire history of the world. Most of the prophecies have now been fulfilled so it is possible to review history to develop an accurate interpretation of the events and symbols depicted in Revelation, this information will go a long way in helping understand the prophecies. You can view it on you tube at this link.
I can't imagine counting emotional responses as proof against scripture being literal. Yiikes at any dream, prophetic or otherwise, being used to discount or distort what the book of Revelations is saying!
Whatever happened to; Rom 3: 4: "Let God be true and every man a liar."
China has an army of one million troops now, in literal fulfilment to Revelations regarding the King of the East.
We're told of two witnesses in Rev 11: 3, 5, 7-12
3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
5) And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
7-12) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
In the scripture above: people, kindreds, tongues, and nations shall see the two witnesses dead for three and a half days, who will then come to life, stand up and then ascend up to heaven in a cloud.
On Oct 1, 1975 it became possible for this even to occur just as described above, when earth's satellites all connected togeather and people from Sydney, Peking, Athens, Rome, London, New York, Chicago, and Los angeles all watched the Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier boxing match in the Philippine Islands at the same time; making it possible for the above verse to be literally fulfilled.
Another example can be found in Rev 9: 3-10:
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Here we have a discription of an end times event by a man who lived in the 1st century. These locusts seem to be helicopters according to this discription. Crowns like gold on their heads which would be their main rotor blades. Sick for five months without dying sounds like germ warfare. Their faces were as the faces of men, as in the Pilot and Co-pilot. The women's hair and lions' teeth remind me of the Helicopters used in Vietnam that had sharks' mouths and teeth painted on them. The breastplates of iron were made of iron. With the sound of many chariots of many horses running to battle, much as a force of helicopters would sound like to a 1st century man. Their tails like a scorpian's with a stinger, is a good discription of a helicopter's tail structure with its tail rotor. This is another example of the scriptures in the book of Rev possibily being literal.
If these passages are literally true, what does that say for the rest of the book of Revelations?
The first thing to keep in mind is that it is primarily the revelation of Lord Jesus, not of the Antichrist and such.
Revelation begins with the problems that the church suffers. Each church represents a kind of church through the ages. The last church to be rebuked is Laodicea. I believe, from observation, that Laodicea is a depiction of the protestant church in our day.
Revelation is also the depiction of Satan's last ditch attempt to prevent his inevitable defeat and one way trip to the Lake of fire. Lord Jesus told John to write down the things that he saw, the things that are now and the things that are to come (Rev. 1:19).
There are nearly as many ideas as there are believers. I suggest that Derek Prince was one of the most scholarly interpreters who was also a genuine man of God with real insight from the Holy Spirit. I suggest that you check out what he has to say.
it’s apocalyptic it’s coming from the ot and revealing more of those visions and events that happened throughout the Bible . For instance
zechariah sees a vision of a golden candlestick with seven lamps and he sees two olive trees one on each side of it. And he asks “ what are these two olive trees ? “
“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
Zechariah 4:11-14
John doesn’t see the olive trees but he makes a reference back to Zechariah’s vision and says “ these are the two olive trees “ and we then receive more revealed or “unveiled “information or “ apacolypse “
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
Revelation 11:3-4
Then we can think “ who are the two annointed ones who stood by the lord of the earth in his glory ?
“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
Luke 9:29-31 KJV
then you can even think Moses ministry he changed water to blood and caused disease and plague and Elijah in his ministry shut up the sky so it couldn’t rain for three and a half years
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: ( Elijah )
and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, ( Moses ) as often as they will.”
Revelation 11:3, 6 KJV
Revelation is really a great book but it’s an apacolypse. To really make any sense of it we need to look at the entire Bible
It’s almost all represented in the same way as tbat example
The way I see it the messages to the 7 assemblies are instructions for all believers on how to walk the path into God's presence. The messages are given and then in the next verse a portal is opened in heaven for John to enter. Similar to this
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge self-control; and to self-control patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:4-11