Faith or Law?

[Toknow]

It's not according to me, it's according to God. You believe that the Lord Jesus said "if you keep the law and do good works and I will save you", but you won't find anything like that in the bible.
You will find that we are "saved by grace, and not by works" as you suggest.

Please post where I stated that I said we are saved by works.
I don't know any Christian that believes that we are saved by works.

Isaiah 64 is a profound confession of human inability, a declaration of total depravity, and a desperate cry for sovereign, covenantal grace. The chapter is understood as a model for repentance and a plea for revival, emphasizing that salvation comes only from God's intervention, not human efforts.

What do you mean by TOTAL DEPRAVITY?
Are you reformed?


I'll post Isaiah 64:1- 5 again


1Oh, that You would rend the heavens and come down,
That the mountains might quake at Your presence—
2As fire kindles the brushwood, as fire causes water to boil—
To make Your name known to Your adversaries,
That the nations may tremble at Your presence!

3When You did awesome things which we did not expect,
You came down, the mountains quaked at Your presence.

4For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.

5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
We continued in them a long time;
And shall we be saved?

6For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.


To whom does the writer wish that God would make Himself known?
For whom does God act?
God meets someone. Who?
What is that person doing?
why was God angry (sounds like a human trait) at some?
Why?
WHO has come to be as unclean before God?
Whose works are like filthy rags?
Are they God-fearing people?
Or are the full of iniquity?

The above are in order of the wrier's statements and should be easy to answer.
If you can answer all thsese questions...
you might have to change your theology.

Not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that "God is against good works", but I can assure you it's not true.

YOU seemed to be concerned about having the correct MOTIVE for doing good works.

I've never heard about God experiencing the human emotion of happiness in the bible. Could you please cite the chapter and verse you got that notion from.

One verse is in Isaiah 64...I pointed it out to you.

You need proof that God is happy with humans??


Ezekiel 18:13
13Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
Psalm 147:10-11
10He does not delight in the strength of the horse;
He does not take pleasure in the legs of a man.

11The LORD favors those who fear Him,
Those who wait for His lovingkindness.



God is the very source of happiness.

 

[Toknow]

Tyndale translated the Greek into English during the sixteenth century.

Jerome translated the Greek into Latin in the fourth century.

In the fourth century Jerome translated the Greek 'Pistis' into 'Fides'.

The Greek 'Pistis' in Latin means 'Fides' which then translated into English means; faith, believe, trust.

Nothing has been lost to time in our translations of 'Pistis'.

The noun 'believe' has the verb form 'believing'.

The noun 'trust' has the verb form 'trusting'.

So it would seem that you DO understand that BELIEVE must be on-going.
TRUST must be on-going.

Here is an example of an erroneous understanding of the N.T.

"Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

So it would seem that you DO believe that we are to SURRENDER to Him.

or do you?

Here is what the text actually states.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Do you see the difference?

Ah. Maybe not.

However, it is impossible to see the difference because you did not post the opposing view.
You posted only Ephesians 2:8

Where is the opposing scripture??

(I might have missed it).

 

[Sipsey]

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

I think that God understands who is faithing and who is not, even if they call it by another name. “Faith in action” is primarily the end product, and any good teacher can explain with analogies and examples. Belief is like an onion with many layers. At its plumbed depth, it is a full embrace of the truth as described by our Savior, and those He chose to relay His message.

 

[Watchman22]

I think that God understands who is faithing and who is not, even if they call it by another name. “Faith in action” is primarily the end product, and any good teacher can explain with analogies and examples. Belief is like an onion with many layers. At its plumbed depth, it is a full embrace of the truth as described by our Savior, and those He chose to relay His message.

I agree Sipsey,

I do think there are many paths to a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. But it would sure be nice to know exactly what response God is looking for in this day and age, wouldn't it?

Your post shows a deep understanding and discernment of faith and faithing, pistis and pisteuo.
How did you come to understand this?

 

[Gideon300]

Hearing of what faith?

There is only one faith that matters. It is the faith of the Son of God. I don't know why modern translations mess with the literal. Since you are a pastor, perhaps you can explain.

 

[GWH]

I agree.
The other member stated that everything in the NT is spiritual.

Water was a metaphor (wonder what I said?) for never going thirsty if we believe in Jesus.
Thirsty...spiritual thirst. I believe I mentioned the woman at the well.

Can't remember about love,,,but of course you're right.
Love is a fruit of having the Holy Spirit dwell in us...
along with other fruit...Galatians.

Yes, love is the summary fruit, intended to embrace all godly behavior (Matt. 22:37-40, Gal. 5:6).

 

[Toknow]

Yes, love is the summary fruit, intended to embrace all godly behavior (Matt. 22:37-40, Gal. 5:6).

Right.
Love covers all the commandments.
LOVE GOD
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF

Wasn't Jesus the best psychologist !
If we don't love ourselves...
we can't love others either.
AND
we will respect ourselves more...
saving us from much world-made grief.

 

[Toknow]

@studier
@Qt


I thought of something.

Jesus said He is the door...
He is the gate.

So, yes, we are entering into His place, His world, His area.
He's at the gate of that area.
He protects it.

As long as we are in that area,,,,we will be protected.

Just a thought.