Faith or Law?

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Toknow said:
Sorry.
Do you wish to?
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This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
 
Watchman22 said:
This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
Click to expand...
Tyndale translated the Greek into English during the sixteenth century.

Jerome translated the Greek into Latin in the fourth century.

In the fourth century Jerome translated the Greek 'Pistis' into 'Fides'.

The Greek 'Pistis' in Latin means 'Fides' which then translated into English means; faith, believe, trust.

Nothing has been lost to time in our translations of 'Pistis'.

The noun 'believe' has the verb form 'believing'.

The noun 'trust' has the verb form 'trusting'.

Here is an example of an erroneous understanding of the N.T.

"Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

Here is what the text actually states.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Do you see the difference?
 
L
Watchman22 said:
Faithe, faithing, and faither are the words the English language should have had for the translators to translate pisteuo into the English.

Because the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to our noun Faith like the Greek does to pistis, they chose the words believe, believer, and believing, which are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo.

Because of this mistranslation, everything we look up in regards to pisteuo in English will be stamped back out onto the Greek. The words believe, believer, and believing are not words in the Greek language. But if i look up what the Greek word for believe is in the Greek, it will come back pisteuo. Mistranslated in, Mistranslated back out and stamped onto the Greek.

I explain this in depth in the rediscovering pisteuo OP 4 or 5 pages back.
Click to expand...
Not good English!

Blessings!
 
Inquisitor said:
Tyndale translated the Greek into English during the sixteenth century.

Jerome translated the Greek into Latin in the fourth century.

In the fourth century Jerome translated the Greek 'Pistis' into 'Fides'.

The Greek 'Pistis' in Latin means 'Fides' which then translated into English means; faith, believe, trust.

Nothing has been lost to time in our translations of 'Pistis'.

The noun 'believe' has the verb form 'believing'.

The noun 'trust' has the verb form 'trusting'.

Here is an example of an erroneous understanding of the N.T.

"Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

Here is what the text actually states.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Do you see the difference?
Click to expand...

Pistis is the noun where we get our English word and noun "faith", not believe.

The information I've given you is solid, ive fulfilled what's expected of me. Now it's up to you.
 
-"There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him."
I Peter 3:21-22 NKJV

-"This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."
I John 5:6-8 NKJV
 
TruthDefender said:
Not just Greek, but Koine Greek of the 1st century. “Must”, no thanks! Lol
God never said we should learn Hebrew, or Aramaic. English is good enough!!
Click to expand...

Yes he would send some to interpet for you, just like someone did for me 38 years ago.

If the information I've shared with you doesn't get you excited like a new car, all I can say is never mind, it wasn't intended for you.
 
Lovette said:
You might want to read Matt. 5:17-20, Rom. 7:7-12.
Click to expand...
-"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
Galatians 3:24-25 NKJV

-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV
 
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TruthDefender said:
-"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
Galatians 3:24-25 NKJV
Click to expand...

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Heb. 5:12-14)

TruthDefender said:
-"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law."
Hebrews 7:12 NKJV
Click to expand...
(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.) (Rom. 2:13-15)
 
Lovette said:
You might want to read Matt. 5:17-20, Rom. 7:7-12.
Click to expand...
Some don't understand Scripture and like to change it's meaning.

The very words of Jesus are rejected for their own personal belief system.

Only the Holy Spirit can help these persons.
 
Soyeong said:
I take the middle position that we are not required to obey the Law of God in order to become saved as the result and we are not required to obey it as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of it before God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of saving us from not having that experience (Titus 2:11-13).

I don’t think that anyone who is participating in that training, who struggles with sin, and who is grieved by their sin has lost their salvation, but whether someone can lose their salvation if they deliberately turn their back on God and ceased to be a doer of those things is another issue.

The more times that we make a choice the easier it becomes to make it again, so repetition and consistency are more important than amount. For example, someone would be building more godly character by choosing to give $1 to charity every day than by giving $400 once a year. So try to find something small that you can choose to do to improve in the areas that you struggle with sin and be repetitive and consistent about it.
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I'm just like the apostle Paul. He wanted to do good after he was converted but he couldn't stop himself from doing evil things.
He admitted that the desire to do evil is greater than his desire to do good. Do you believe that the Apostle Paul lost his salvation?.

Romans 7:19 "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice."
"Romans 7:15 "For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do".
Romans 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find".
This is my exact dilemma, I want to do good, but I can't find a way to program myself to do good.

Romans 7:24-25 "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

I also thank God, for the Lord Jesus Christ, because He will deliver me from this body of death. Just like Paul, I'm also 100% sure that I will be saved. The only way I can lose my salvation would be if God breaks His promise, and I'm sure God never lies or breaks any of His promises.

Pauls letter to Titus was not some kind of an instruction manual on how to get saved. Titus was a Gentile a (Greek). Pauls letter was an exhortation to to born again Christians, meaning (people who are already saved).

He reminded them that God has chosen to save people from every tribe and tongue (not just the Jews). Jesus did come to save the Jews only, but when the jews rejected Him, then He grafted in the Gentiles as well.

We are saved by grace, not by works or ethnicity.
 
Sipsey said:
There is a verse in the Old Testament, that says "our best works are as filthy rags in Gods sight".
The key words are:
כְּבֶגֶד עִדִּים
ke·véged ʿiddîm
Literally: “like a garment of menstruation”


It has been a while since I visited that verse, but my understanding is that those “filthy rags” did not necessarily only emphasize that something was “unclean.” Those rags could also be understood to mean that there was no life in the womb, and indicate a deeper meaning.
Click to expand...
There are other scriptures which confirm that God is not satisfied with any of our good works or offering, if we are offering them in exchange for the forgiveness of sin.
Burnt offering became a stench in God's nostrils, the Jews had been burning animals for a long time before God sent His own Son as a once and for all sacrifice.

The take away for me is not to make any deals with God, I did it on many occasions and lived to regret each one.
I now understand why my offerings are an abomination in His sight, it's because I'm saying "dear God, I promise to be good from now on if you just forgive this terrible sin I've committed". That was me saying "OK God I know Jesus attempted to atone for all of my sin, but let me finish the job by my sacrifice. God knew my sacrifice was not from the heart, it was an attempt to bribe God.
 
Toknow said:
But our works are not as filthy rags.






Our works are not as filthy rags because Jesus commands us to obey HIm and what He taught...
so how could works not be pleasing to God? Jesus said that those who do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Sinning is not doing the will of the Father.
Doing good deeds is doing the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Hebrews 10:24
24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Isaiah 64 is addressing people that DO NOT BELIEVE in God.
The same Isaiah 64 states that God likes our good deeds of righteousness:


Isaiah 64
1Oh, that You would rend the heavens and come down,
That the mountains might quake at Your presence—
2As fire kindles the brushwood, as fire causes water to boil—
To make Your name known to Your adversaries,
That the nations may tremble at Your presence!

3When You did awesome things which we did not expect,
You came down, the mountains quaked at Your presence.

4For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.

5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
We continued in them a long time;
And shall we be saved?

6For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Verse 4 is speaking about unbelievers.
Verse 5 is speaking of those that believe God and are doing righteousness.
Don't let anyone tell you that God does not love our good works.
HE planned for them:


Ephesians 2:10
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The Pharisee in your example is doing what he does to impress other men.
When you help someone, do you do it to get credit for yourself,
or to help the other person?

It's not because your motive was wrong...
it's because TV evangelists need a lot of money for their ministry and they LIE to you.
God is not Santa Clause.

Send your money to the poor,
not to rich TV evangelists.

I hope you're not going to a Word of Faith church.

Right.
Amen to that.

Sounds good to me.
Just keep walking toward God and not toward the liar, satan.
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The context of the "good works" was to gain Gods favour. God doesn't demand anything in exchange for His free gift of salvation. If salvation depends on our "good works: then nobody would be saved because nobody is good.
Only God is good.
 
Journey_man said:
The context of the "good works" was to gain Gods favour. God doesn't demand anything in exchange for His free gift of salvation. If salvation depends on our "good works: then nobody would be saved because nobody is good.
Only God is good.
Click to expand...
Most interesting indeed.

So, according to you, Christians are not required to do good works as Jesus commanded?

Where in Isaiah 64 does it state that good works were to get God's favor?

Do you think God is AGAINST good works?

Seems to me God is very happy when those who claim to know Him do good works for His Kingdom on earth.
 
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