F I R M A M E N T U M

[Mem]

And now for something completely different.

 

[Gideon300]

The firmament is not the dome; rather, it is the space under the dome occupied by the first heaven (where birds fly) + the second heaven (where the sun, moon, and stars are).

The dome itself is made of water - or - has water above it.

Scripture says there is water above the firmament.

'outer space' - beyond the dome - is the third heaven.

The 'circle of the earth' (Isaiah 40:22) is referring to the 'circle' that is made by the sun (melting the ice) where the oceans meet the 'ice wall'.

This is the 'circle' that God made on "the face of the deep"...

It is not the whole earth; rather, it is a 'circle' on the earth - which marks the 'habitable' area of the earth.

I believe the shape of the earth is actually square - with the 'circle of the earth' in the center of it.

Welcome to the 17th century everyone.

 

[DanielLL]

never think of Him as a man, like you.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

You are guilty of slander until you present the requested evidence.

You are not the Judge to declare anyone guilty, you are the accuser, and a single witness:

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

But then the facts refute their theories...

The Word is Truth, the witnesses of man cannot "refute" the witness of the Word. It is written:

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

isn't possible

no english bible says it in this way

Ok not a singular translator ever translated the word as sphere. There is not a single bible not just in english, but in any language, that ever translated the word as sphere. That means you have no witnesses, at all. Just your own understanding.

 

[Dino246]

You are not the Judge to declare anyone guilty, you are the accuser, and a single witness:

Your own words condemn you.

 

[oyster67]

I challenge you to present me with a singular translation of the Bible that has translated the word "chug" to mean sphere, in any verse that the word chug is used. There isn't one singular example of the word chug beeing translated as sphere.

Perhaps you have the word sphere confused with beer ?

 

[oyster67]

And now for something completely different.

I see Junior has inherited my athletic abilities.

 

[GaryA]

Welcome to the 17th century everyone.

And every century before it - when everyone knew and understood the truth about the earth that God made...

Some will dispute this - but, that is okay...

When God shows folks the truth - jaws will drop, and they will finally understand and be amazed at just how extensive the deception really is...

 

[posthuman]

never think of Him as a man, like you.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

wth kind of response to my post is that?

are you calling me a liar because i said "God is not a man, like you" ??

are you saying Isaiah 55:8-9 is deception?
are you saying Hosea 11:9 & Psalm 50:21 are anitchrist?

 

[posthuman]

And every century before it - when everyone knew and understood the truth about the earth that God made...

Gary.
you know as well as the rest of us that mankind has documented the shape of the earth to be a globe since at least the 7th century BC

this thread really has no place in the BDF.
'flat earth' is not the gospel.

 

[Magenta]

A site that supports sodomites, this is your "source".

He warns against the advancement of gay rights and how laws of the
land will be used to further their politicized cause against the church.

 

[Blain]

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


You are not the Judge to declare anyone guilty, you are the accuser, and a single witness:

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


The Word is Truth, the witnesses of man cannot "refute" the witness of the Word. It is written:

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.



Ok not a singular translator ever translated the word as sphere. There is not a single bible not just in english, but in any language, that ever translated the word as sphere. That means you have no witnesses, at all. Just your own understanding.

As I said before the word of God the old testament was originally written in the hebrew text and I gave you the hebrew word for the word circle and it's meaning you however like achild made a false accusation of me claiming i got my source from a site that supported a horrendous act you were backed into a corner and used slander like an immature child with no evidence to support your supposed accusation and no way to even find a way to give such evidence as i did not give any reference to my source beforehand when you made that accusation so you had no way of knowing whether my source supported such things or not i merely gave the word and it's definition nothing else no link or anything.

I warned you I did not need to resort to using scripture to disprove you on this matter I disproved you earlier in the thread with logic and science with everyone here as my witness and anyone here who looks back on it will agree, now I have disproven you with the hebrew language and you simply could not handle it so you resort to false accusation and childish behavior. A good soldier knows when to leave the battle field my friend you are the only one here who thinks you have a dog in this fight and who thinks you haven't already lost but I have debunked you twofold with logic and science and then with the hebrew language you however can only cling to a few verses that at best rely on interpretation to fit into your agenda however that quickly falls apart if one understands that the word of God was originally written in hebrew and greek then your verse no longers supports your theory as it did

of course I I do not expect you to bow out peacefully I know your type but perhaps those who have been watching this thread will be witnesses and they can be the judges as you have said it takes more than one witness correct? well perhaps they will speak up peerhaps not but either way the fact you had to resort to making false accusations of me says a lot

 

[Blain]

wth kind of response to my post is that?

are you calling me a liar because i said "God is not a man, like you" ??

are you saying Isaiah 55:8-9 is deception?
are you saying Hosea 11:9 & Psalm 50:21 are anitchrist?

I think he thought you were speaking about me

 

[GaryA]

Gary.
you know as well as the rest of us that mankind has documented the shape of the earth to be a globe since at least the 7th century BC

this thread really has no place in the BDF.
'flat earth' is not the gospel.

And you know that 'documented' does not automatically mean 'truth'.

I think it is okay for this thread to be in the BDF as long as it is focused on a bible study on the 'firmament' - and, it would be best if it did not depart from that...

 

[posthuman]

And you know that 'documented' does not automatically mean 'truth'.

yes i have read your flat threads.
i realize full well that just because some neo-gnosticism is on youtube and has been a fad for 6 or 8 years it is not necessarily true.
even ancient aliens know the earth is not a toy terrarium.

i also realize that if the earth was flat there would be no such thing as sunset "in the firmament"
and i realize that not once have any of you flat people ever gone and watched the sunset or sunrise and reported back to me what you saw even tho i asked you to something like 200 times.

this nonsense doesn't belong in BDF.

'firmament' was fully discussed in the first couple pages.

 

[Blain]

yes i have read your flat threads.
i realize full well that just because some neo-gnosticism is on youtube and has been a fad for 6 or 8 years it is not necessarily true.
even ancient aliens know the earth is not a toy terrarium.

i also realize that if the earth was flat there would be no such thing as sunset "in the firmament"
and i realize that not once have any of you flat people ever gone and watched the sunset or sunrise and reported back to me what you saw even tho i asked you to something like 200 times.

this nonsense doesn't belong in BDF.

'firmament' was fully discussed in the first couple pages.

I agree while the title may have said firmamentum the core of it was to prove a flat earth using scripture. it was never about the bible itself the bible was merely the means to prove a theory he believes in which falls flat due to it's lack of support of both logic and common sense. Why on earth flat or round anyone would fight so hard to prove such a thing I have no clue but not only does science disprove it as well as the logic you use with the sunset and sun rise but the hebrew word for circle I used does as well.

I mean I wish I could see just one flat earther learn from others just one but for whatever reason every one I have come accross so stubbornly refuses to let go of their view they want to be right that badly as if it is so wrong to be wrong every now and then I mean I admit I can be wrong sometimes and have to change my understanding I don't understand why others cannot do the same

 

[posthuman]

I agree while the title may have said firmamentum the core of it was to prove a flat earth using scripture. it was never about the bible itself the bible was merely the means to prove a theory he believes in which falls flat due to it's lack of support of both logic and common sense. Why on earth flat or round anyone would fight so hard to prove such a thing I have no clue but not only does science disprove it as well as the logic you use with the sunset and sun rise but the hebrew word for circle I used does as well.

I mean I wish I could see just one flat earther learn from others just one but for whatever reason every one I have come accross so stubbornly refuses to let go of their view they want to be right that badly as if it is so wrong to be wrong every now and then I mean I admit I can be wrong sometimes and have to change my understanding I don't understand why others cannot do the same

Yes to them it is their gospel

 

[Blain]

Yes to them it is their gospel

Well I certainly have to wonder that is for sure I mean you see how this thread turned out.

 

[DanielLL]

Isaiah 55:8-9

We weren't talking about His "toughts", but the Word, which is plain and understandable:

Proverbs 8:8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

Even a child can understand the Word "circle":

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

I have disproven you with the hebrew language

The Hebrews disprove you, because they regard the firmament as solid:

he vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, Genesis 1:6

But since you think the Hebrew language supports your "sphere", I went to chabad.org to the people who actually read the Word in Hebrew. This is what they have to say:

Proverbs 8:27
when He drew a circle over the face of the deep: When He drew the circle of the earth over the water, to draw a boundary that it may not pass. חוג is an expression of encircling, as in (Isa. 44: 13): “and with a compass (ובמחוגה) he rounds it.” (Compas in French, zirkel in German, as in Gen. 29:17, Isa. 5:22, 44:13, and Job 22:14.)

Isaiah 44:13
and with a compass he rounds it: Heb. יְתָאֳרֵהוּ, an expression similar to (Josh. 15:9): “And the border circled (וְתָאַר).” If he comes to make circular drawings, he draws around it with a compass, compas in French.

Joshua 15:9
And circled: Heb. וְתָאַר an expression similar to וְנָסַב, in a circle, like: “And with a compass he encircles it.” יְתָאֳרֵהוּ Jonathan rendered them all וְיִסְחַר, and he encircled.

Job 22:14
circle: Heb. חוג, the circle of the compass of the heavens, like (Isa. 44:13), “and with a compass (ובמחוגה) he rounds it,” compas in French

The Hebrews talk about a circle drawn by a compass:

This circle was drawn on the "face of the deep", which is a flat surface - In solid geometry, a face is a flat surface - Wiki
So, as you can see, There is not a singular translator, not a single translation, of any verse in any language, where the Word חוג is translated as "sphere".

 

[Gideon300]

And every century before it - when everyone knew and understood the truth about the earth that God made...

Some will dispute this - but, that is okay...

When God shows folks the truth - jaws will drop, and they will finally understand and be amazed at just how extensive the deception really is...

You can't even get that straight. The ancient Greeks established that the earth was a globe. It was the religious who misunderstood the Bible that decided the earth was flat. And yes, I mean the Catholic organisation. This is the same organisation that believes we are descended from apes. If you find that in the Bible, I might reconsider flat earth theory.

 

[tourist]

Perhaps you have the word sphere confused with beer ?

A sensible explanation. Beer has alcohol, right? Oh, maybe it's root beer.