Did mis-treatment of woman begin with Adam?
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I'm focusing on what the text actually states. Until we agree on what it states, there is little point in trying to interpret it. The text does not state that God cursed the woman or the man. That has profound implications on how it is interpreted, as you will see in my response to another post.
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Heehee!
You're always good for a chuckle, Simon.
Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.
Colossians 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.
I'm not blaming God, silly man. I'm attributing everything to God. Nothing was made that wasn't made by Him. It does not matter what it appears to you or me or anyone else. In God's Spiritual realm, He gets glory for a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that was created.
You're always good for a chuckle, Simon.Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.
Colossians 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.
I'm not blaming God, silly man. I'm attributing everything to God. Nothing was made that wasn't made by Him. It does not matter what it appears to you or me or anyone else. In God's Spiritual realm, He gets glory for a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that was created.
How did Cain become a murderer and excluded from Adams Genealogy and why was the murderer the firstborn and excluded if God didn't let the flying serpent defile her ? 😀 .....chuckle and giggle as much as anyone may I have a problem with this fruit tree knowledge stuff when at that moment the first knowledge was flesh nakedness .....it just sounds to much like the serpent sponsored a flesh orgy and everything in scripture from then on became about all the horrible things we do in the flesh......and what gets done with seeds....and what kind of seed is sewn....
I apologize but.....the bible seems x rated on a lot of subject to me......I mean enmity seed is described or explained a lot of ways but I just don't believe Gen. 6:4 is sons of Seth as some claim and I think enmity seed is enmity seed and the first crime.😀
Well Im not trying to argue with you about what is written ....I'm trying to understand how you are saying it makes a difference?
Maybe you are making a good point I just haven't realized yet.....but I don't know....in my Simple Simon logic ....call it multipled sorrow a plague or sex trafficking it just looks like the same mule with a different plow harness to me!😀
Maybe you are making a good point I just haven't realized yet.....but I don't know....in my Simple Simon logic ....call it multipled sorrow a plague or sex trafficking it just looks like the same mule with a different plow harness to me!😀
There is a huge difference between "God wants it this way" and "God says (prophetically) it will be this way". You seem to be favouring the former. That means that you believe that God wants women to suffer when they bear children. In that light, god is a monster. I know from reading the rest of Scripture that God is not a monster, so I look at this verse and conclude that "but he shall rule over you" is what will happen, rather than what God wants to happen. What will happen is the consequences of sin. What God wants to happen is commanded.
God didn't command Eve to submit to Adam; God said he would rule over her. If God wants husbands to rule over wives, why didn't He give the command to Adam? It's a strange way to format a command, and if it is, it's the only example in Scripture of a command given in third person. If this is a command, men who rule more heavy-handedly are fulfilling the command more fully, and those who rule with an iron fist are doing it best. Is that really what we believe? If not, let's re-examine our interpretation of "but he will rule over you".
Apology accepted. I forgive you.
God didn't command Eve to submit to Adam; God said he would rule over her. If God wants husbands to rule over wives, why didn't He give the command to Adam? It's a strange way to format a command, and if it is, it's the only example in Scripture of a command given in third person. If this is a command, men who rule more heavy-handedly are fulfilling the command more fully, and those who rule with an iron fist are doing it best. Is that really what we believe? If not, let's re-examine our interpretation of "but he will rule over you".
Apology accepted. I forgive you.
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More than 15 years ago, I was frantically praying about an urgent matter. As I was calling out to God in tears, He placed a question in my heart: "Can you believe Me more than what you see or feel or think?"
Of course I could not... in the flesh. But I determined to believe Him anyhow with my mind. So I kept reminding myself to praise Him in spite of what was happening. Eventually, and in a matter of a short time, I suddenly realized my prayer was answered. What I had been looking at was not true, even though it was right there before my physical eyes. What I eventually came to see was a miracle of God.
God doesn't see things the way we do. The things we see in the physical realm are temporal and are disappearing by the millisecond. The reality of the spiritual realm is eternal and invisible to our eyes, but God can reveal it to us.
Of course I could not... in the flesh. But I determined to believe Him anyhow with my mind. So I kept reminding myself to praise Him in spite of what was happening. Eventually, and in a matter of a short time, I suddenly realized my prayer was answered. What I had been looking at was not true, even though it was right there before my physical eyes. What I eventually came to see was a miracle of God.
God doesn't see things the way we do. The things we see in the physical realm are temporal and are disappearing by the millisecond. The reality of the spiritual realm is eternal and invisible to our eyes, but God can reveal it to us.
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The treatment of women has been improved by how God created the world, and by mankind learning of that. It is only when man forgot God and created imitation gods making idols that mistreatment of women entered the world. Any time mankind has gone back to God the treatment of women has improved.
At creation, woman was a part of men, created from man's very bones. Man was created from the earth. Then, in the rite of marriage they became one again. If men mistreated a woman it was like mistreating himself. When the church teaches that women are subject to all men orders them and men can just order them around, it was when secular ideas were incorporated into God's ways.
The secular influence on the worship of God that has turned that men came first and then women so men are free to mistreat women is not scripture. As we know of any team of anything, sports, industrial, or home, one needs to be a leader. As with any team, that leader needs to just lead not dominate. So it is with a proper interpretation of scripture.
At creation, woman was a part of men, created from man's very bones. Man was created from the earth. Then, in the rite of marriage they became one again. If men mistreated a woman it was like mistreating himself. When the church teaches that women are subject to all men orders them and men can just order them around, it was when secular ideas were incorporated into God's ways.
The secular influence on the worship of God that has turned that men came first and then women so men are free to mistreat women is not scripture. As we know of any team of anything, sports, industrial, or home, one needs to be a leader. As with any team, that leader needs to just lead not dominate. So it is with a proper interpretation of scripture.
Cain was born to fallen Adam and Eve (Gen 4:1). And Scripture says: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom 5:12) So Cain and Abel were born with the indwelling sin nature inherited from Adam and Eve (as are all human beings). The tendency to sin was there to begin with from the minute they were born.
At the same time (although this is not explicitly stated) God had already taught Adam and Eve the necessity of a sinless substitute by providing them with coats of skins. They would also have been taught the importance of the shed blood of unblemished clean animals, and that of the whole burnt offering. So both Cain and Abel would have been aware of the sacrifices which would be acceptable to God.
However, Scripture tells us that Cain was an evil man: Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous (1 John 3:12)
"Who was of that wicked one" would mean that Satan (the Wicked One) had an extraordinary influence on Cain. On the other hand Abel was justified by grace through faith, hence deemed righteous. And because Cain murdered his brother and failed to repent, he became an outcast and was expunged from the line of Adam.
The book of Enoch agrees with Scripture in that evil angels (*the angels which kept not their first estate*) -- called *sons of God* -- cohabited with human women, produced Nephilim (giants), and also corrupted the human race. And they may have taught humans many extraordinary things (even advanced technology).
Since the Bible makes it quite clear that Cain was the child of Adam and Eve, the Serpent Seed doctrine does not have any basis in Scripture (that Cain was born from the union of Satan and Eve). However spiritually speaking men who choose to be wicked and evil are spiritual "children of the devil", since they display his character -- to deceive, to kill and to destroy, as well as maintain enmity with God and Christ (e.g. the Pharisees).
The theory of the Pre-Adamite Earth does not have any basis is Scripture either, and the Ten Commandments make it clear that the universe was created in six literal 24 hour day (Exod 20:11). But nobody can really explain how the monoliths and megaliths came into existence. Since angels have supernatural strength, the evil angels could have been involved before the Flood. Also those structures are found worldwide.
At the same time (although this is not explicitly stated) God had already taught Adam and Eve the necessity of a sinless substitute by providing them with coats of skins. They would also have been taught the importance of the shed blood of unblemished clean animals, and that of the whole burnt offering. So both Cain and Abel would have been aware of the sacrifices which would be acceptable to God.
However, Scripture tells us that Cain was an evil man: Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous (1 John 3:12)
"Who was of that wicked one" would mean that Satan (the Wicked One) had an extraordinary influence on Cain. On the other hand Abel was justified by grace through faith, hence deemed righteous. And because Cain murdered his brother and failed to repent, he became an outcast and was expunged from the line of Adam.
The book of Enoch agrees with Scripture in that evil angels (*the angels which kept not their first estate*) -- called *sons of God* -- cohabited with human women, produced Nephilim (giants), and also corrupted the human race. And they may have taught humans many extraordinary things (even advanced technology).
Since the Bible makes it quite clear that Cain was the child of Adam and Eve, the Serpent Seed doctrine does not have any basis in Scripture (that Cain was born from the union of Satan and Eve). However spiritually speaking men who choose to be wicked and evil are spiritual "children of the devil", since they display his character -- to deceive, to kill and to destroy, as well as maintain enmity with God and Christ (e.g. the Pharisees).
The theory of the Pre-Adamite Earth does not have any basis is Scripture either, and the Ten Commandments make it clear that the universe was created in six literal 24 hour day (Exod 20:11). But nobody can really explain how the monoliths and megaliths came into existence. Since angels have supernatural strength, the evil angels could have been involved before the Flood. Also those structures are found worldwide.
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What about 1 Peter 3:1? Says just that. Wives submit to your husbands.
How can we disregard that in favor of modern culture without just saying honestly: we dont care what the Bible says, this is how we feel and think in the 21st century.
Lets ask @Angela53510 I love her and respect her opinion. TELL US what does it mean? Does it mean what it says?
How can we disregard that in favor of modern culture without just saying honestly: we dont care what the Bible says, this is how we feel and think in the 21st century.
Lets ask @Angela53510 I love her and respect her opinion. TELL US what does it mean? Does it mean what it says?
All very good explaining.
I will still need to study and pray more on the enmity seeding happening in 6:4 but not happening in 2......
Because it seems such the way of the Serpent to lead the way in all abominations debauchery and defilements.
Chronologically .....I am trying to remember at what first point Lucifer was condemned? Ezekiel tells us why but do we have a when anywhere in scripture...
I know non canonical Enoch says the fallen had him take a petition to the Lord asking
Forgiveness. ......that was denied.....so at that point if true they were completely condemned.
Earth age 2 proponents site Peter....I can't recall and would have to search.....
Arnold Murray. deceased Shepherd Chapel Gravette AR early am tv has been broadcasting an earth age 2 serpent enmity seed and cainite message all over the world now by sattellite and ham radio for decades.....
I will still need to study and pray more on the enmity seeding happening in 6:4 but not happening in 2......
Because it seems such the way of the Serpent to lead the way in all abominations debauchery and defilements.
Chronologically .....I am trying to remember at what first point Lucifer was condemned? Ezekiel tells us why but do we have a when anywhere in scripture...
I know non canonical Enoch says the fallen had him take a petition to the Lord asking
Forgiveness. ......that was denied.....so at that point if true they were completely condemned.
Earth age 2 proponents site Peter....I can't recall and would have to search.....
Arnold Murray. deceased Shepherd Chapel Gravette AR early am tv has been broadcasting an earth age 2 serpent enmity seed and cainite message all over the world now by sattellite and ham radio for decades.....
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Question: Why do so many Christian men emphasize I Peter 1:3 about wives submitting to their husbands but don’t also include the very next few verses where the Word instructs godly women not to concern themselves about dressing up pretty, adorning themselves, fixing their hair to look attractive? If a man truly wanted a holy wife, he would not only want one who submits to him, but who submits to God by not fixing up her outward appearance. If you don’t want a wife that honors God in such a way, you just want a woman to knuckle under to you. Let's get real.
Also brothers, a few verses later in that same chapter you see it tells husbands to honor their wives. Is that important to you as well? If so, how come there are not oodles and oodles of posts in the threads by you men teaching the other men how they should love and honor their wives? On the other hand, there sure are oodles and oodles of posts about wives submitting to their husbands. Can someone please explain why this is so?
Also brothers, a few verses later in that same chapter you see it tells husbands to honor their wives. Is that important to you as well? If so, how come there are not oodles and oodles of posts in the threads by you men teaching the other men how they should love and honor their wives? On the other hand, there sure are oodles and oodles of posts about wives submitting to their husbands. Can someone please explain why this is so?
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bizarre interpretation
you must be joking
you must be joking
Partial joke with inclusion of taught doctrine that knowledge fruit tree is edited G rated version of X reality.....
That serpent lead the way of Gen.6:4 in Gen. 2.....some pastors have taught it for decades.😀.....one in AR televises every week day at 0500 am and uses sattellite and ham radio to get out to 260 countries....and has website.
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well I've heard the stories
not inclined to be persuaded to go with that interpretation...too many overturning of leaves looking for 'easter eggs' IMO
however I do believe the Nephilim were the result of fallen angels and human women getting to know each other better
so many do not but I think that is plain also
G or X doesn't matter. cherubs fluttering on every page would not be true
I guess one day we will all know for sure
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