Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Eli1]

You go shopping, right?
Get fuel, go through a drive-thru, etc.

You don't have to get out and make a set time to share God. You can go about life's routine like going through arby's drive-thru or pumping gas for your car. And in doing so, when you get your food you say, God Bless you and Jesus loves you. Pumping gas you can say to person near you, the same thing.

When I grocery shop and it's real busy and the clerks are overwhelmed. I say, I am praying that Jesus gives you strength to survive this day.

I have never been told, I don't believe that or shut up when I have said those things. I am just "Planting Seed."

Exactly!
God is not an affair you put on a calendar from 9-11AM.
It's the reason you're alive so you need to be grateful for as long as you're aware and conscious to thank God for blessing you with faith and share your blessing through you, which is also the teachings that I've received in my church too since i was a 15 year old kid.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Exactly!
God is not an affair you put on a calendar from 9-11AM.
It's the reason you're alive so you need to be grateful for as long as you're aware and conscious to thank God for blessing you with faith and share your blessing through you, which is also the teachings that I've received in my church too since i was a 15 year old kid.

AMEN!
I am happy that you have this wonderful revelation, Brother!
When we do it naturally, it will always become a "Divine Appointment" that we did not plan but that God planned through us
That means the seed will more likely be planted into fertile soil.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

They do when we don’t try to erase the ones we don’t want to hear

Which ones would that be?

 

[Rufus]

Judas Iscariot came to Jesus drawn by the Father. A lot of murderous conniving pharisees and scribes came to Jesus drawn by the Father. Crowds of hungry people came to Jesus drawn by the Father. The devil came to Jesus in the wilderness, drawn by the Father.

So, then...Judas, the devil, etc. are all saved, happy, blissful campers in heaven since whoever comes to the Son, the Son will never cast out and he will never lose any whom the Father has given to him because it's the Father's will they all such people be raised up on the last day and shall have eternal life (Jn 6:37-40)?

Quite a fanciful theology you have....

 

[Rufus]

Your theory does not harmonize with (John 6:37-40) (John 10:26-29)

Not only that by Komentaja's theory doesn't square with the larger context of Heb 2:9, for v.10 qualifies the "everyone" in v.9 because v.10 begins with "in bringing many sons glory, it was fitting that God...". "Everyone" in v.9, therefore, is used in the limited sense as is very often the case with with universal terms.

 

[Rufus]

.



That's sort of like the red dot that Hindu's place in the middle of their
forehead. The dot is reputed to represent a spiritual eye that's able to see
things that their normal eyes cannot see. For example:

"Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them: Your eyes have seen
all that Yahweh did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land.
With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous signs and
great wonders. But to this day Yahweh has not given you a mind that
understands, or eyes that see, or ears that hear. (Deut 29:2-5)

In the sphere of human existence; a mind that cannot understand, eyes that
cannot see, and ears that cannot hear; pertain to the mental and physical
characteristics of a corpse.
_

Sadyl, so many here don't try to understand the metaphors of scripture, such as what it means to be spiritually dead. They just gloss over the metaphors.

And the opposite is true well, especially with respect to Jesus' miracles. He raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, opened the ears of the deaf, made the lame and crippled to walk -- but so many don't see the profoundly deeper and richer spiritual realities behind these miracles. So many seem to see only the surface of Word and never bother to drill down deeper to unearth great spiritual treasures.

 

[Magenta]

God will not do the work of you eating, Believing, Chewing, Coming to Him, all the things he told them they need to do to Receive him in faith.

I find it interesting that one of the things God commanded of the Israelites was for them to
circumcise their hearts, when we are specifically told it is something God does. Without an
uncircumcised heart, can one love God? For loving God that we may live is the reason He gives for it...

Deuteronomy 30:6~
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[Rufus]

I find it interesting that one of the things God commanded of the Israelites was for them to
circumcise their hearts, when we are specifically told it is something God does. Without an
uncircumcised heart, can one love God? For loving God that we may live is the reason He gives for it...

Deuteronomy 30:6~
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

I have a question for you, if you don't mind: What do you make of that command by God? Didn't he command them to do something that is impossible? NR folks believe that all the commands in the bible (most especially Gospel demands) presuppose man's innate ability to comply. On the other hand, if the Israelites could have have complied on their own, why would God promise to do for them what they could have and should have done for themselves?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I have a question for you, if you don't mind: What do you make of that command by God? Didn't he command them to do something that is impossible? NR folks believe that all the commands in the bible (most especially Gospel demands) presuppose man's innate ability to comply. On the other hand, if the Israelites could have have complied on their own, why would God promise to do for them what they could have and should have done for themselves?

I'm just jumping in on this. I'm not sure what "NR" means because I haven't read the whole thread, but doesn't it just have to do with resisting or not resisting anything that God is trying doing in us? If God commands us to do something, I'm pretty sure He would give us that ability because He wants us to succeed in it. But He also gave us the ability to choose - to resist His provision or not.


🏖️

 

[Magenta]

I have a question for you, if you don't mind: What do you make of that command by God? Didn't he command them to do something that is impossible? NR folks believe that all the commands in the bible (most especially Gospel demands) presuppose man's innate ability to comply. On the other hand, if the Israelites could have complied on their own, why would God promise to do for them what they could have and should have done for themselves?

I cannot presuppose man's innate ability to comply in all matters at all times.

 

[Rufus]

I cannot presuppose man's innate ability to comply in all matters at all times.

So, why would God have commanded Israel to circumcise their hearts if they didn't have the ability to comply, especially when he threatened them with his wrath for failing to obey?

Jer 4:4
4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
circumcise your hearts ,
you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem,
or my wrath will break out and burn like fire
because of the evil you have done —
burn with no one to quench it.
NIV

 

[Rufus]

I'm just jumping in on this. I'm not sure what "NR" means because I haven't read the whole thread, but doesn't it just have to do with resisting or not resisting anything that God is trying doing in us? If God commands us to do something, I'm pretty sure He would give us that ability because He wants us to succeed in it. But He also gave us the ability to choose - to resist His provision or not.


🏖️

How does a direct command from God morph into him graciously trying to do something in us? Is that how you view the Law of Moses, for example: God "trying" to get the Israelites to obey? How did that work out for Israel and Judah?

P.S. "NR" is shorthand for Non-Reformed believers.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

How does a direct command from God morph into him graciously trying to do something in us? Is that how you view the Law of Moses, for example: God "trying" to get the Israelites to obey? How did that work out for Israel and Judah?

P.S. "NR" is shorthand for Non-Reformed believers.

I'm just talking from the perspective of a Christian who has the Holy Spirit to help me grow in Christlikeness and obedience. I used to be nervous about obeying God and it was a real struggle. But then when I was studying the Bible about how can someone actually obey God, He pointed out in the Bible that He gave us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't just a seal on us to show we belong to God, but He's also our Helper who enables us to obey Him.

I'm not sure how the Holy Spirit worked before Jesus died for us. I haven't really studied the Old Testament concerning that. But nevertheless, somehow, there were people who obeyed God even in the Old Testament. It might have to do with submitting to Him.


🥪

 

[Rufus]

I'm just talking from the perspective of a Christian who has the Holy Spirit to help me grow in Christlikeness and obedience. I used to be nervous about obeying God and it was a real struggle. But then when I was studying the Bible about how can someone actually obey God, He pointed out in the Bible that He gave us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit isn't just a seal on us to show we belong to God, but He's also our Helper who enables us to obey Him.

I'm not sure how the Holy Spirit worked before Jesus died for us. I haven't really studied the Old Testament concerning that. But nevertheless, somehow, there were people who obeyed God even in the Old Testament. It might have to do with submitting to Him.


🥪

What you say is true...however, it does not explain why God would give people commands that are impossible for them to keep. I provided in an earlier post today an example from Jer 4:4. God clearly told Israel to circumcise their own hearts and if they didn't he would pour out his wrath upon them. I'm pretty sure I know what's going on with such passages but how many Christians truly do?

I'll give you a hint if you want to continue this dialogue: Was circumcision a rite that males performed on themselves, or was it a rite that was performed on them by a human agency outside of themselves? It you want to quickly get up to speed on this topic, Genesis 17 would be a great place to start.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What you say is true...however, it does not explain why God would give people commands that are impossible for them to keep. I provided in an earlier post today an example from Jer 4:4. God clearly told Israel to circumcise their own hearts and if they didn't he would pour out his wrath upon them. I'm pretty sure I know what's going on with such passages but how many Christians truly do?

I'll give you a hint if you want to continue this dialogue: Was circumcision a rite that males performed on themselves, or was it a rite that was performed on them by a human agency outside of themselves? It you want to quickly get up to speed on this topic, Genesis 17 would be a great place to start.

Someone else did the work on them (although it's possible to do it to themselves).


🥪

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I find it interesting that one of the things God commanded of the Israelites was for them to
circumcise their hearts, when we are specifically told it is something God does. Without an
uncircumcised heart, can one love God? For loving God that we may live is the reason He gives for it...

Deuteronomy 30:6~
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him
with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

I think we need to look at it this way

He will do things, (Circumcise our heart)

He will also ask us to do things. (Circumcise our hearts)

Some things he will also not do without our permission. so he asks us to allow him to do those things..

When Jesus tells us to believe in him, To work to eat the food he came to give (he supplied the food, we just need to eat it) then I think we need to listen to him.

In this aspect. Our eternity depends on it, would you agree?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, why would God have commanded Israel to circumcise their hearts if they didn't have the ability to comply, especially when he threatened them with his wrath for failing to obey?

Jer 4:4
4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
circumcise your hearts ,
you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem,
or my wrath will break out and burn like fire
because of the evil you have done —
burn with no one to quench it.
NIV

I think we need to see it in context

Jer 4: “If you will return, O Israel,” says the Lord,
“Return to Me;
And if you will put away your abominations out of My sight,
Then you shall not be moved.
2 And you shall swear, ‘The Lord lives,’
In truth, in [a]judgment, and in righteousness;
The nations shall bless themselves in Him,
And in Him they shall glory.”

3 For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem:

“Break up your [b]fallow ground,
And do not sow among thorns.
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord,
And take away the foreskins of your hearts,
You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
Lest My fury come forth like fire,
And burn so that no one can quench it,
Because of the evil of your doings.”

 

[BillyBob]

Our faith in Christ comes by way of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit who removes our heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. This work prepares us to receive the word of God in belief. Without this work, we will remain spiritually dead and without hope.
This is so important that Christ tells us that He must go to the Father and the Spirit will be sent to be with us forever. He tells His followers in John 7:38-39
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
He also tells them in John 15 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
This is indeed a mysterious work. For we are told in John 3:8 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

In the reading of the above scripture, it seems clear to me that the work of the Spirit will not be done for all people (the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive). It also seems clear that we have absolutely nothing to contribute to this work (The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes.)

When we credit ourselves in any way for the miracle of re-birth, are we committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Just Asking!

 

[CS1]

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus died for everyone, however just because Jesus dies for you does not automatically make you saved. We are saved by grace, THROUGH faith, so faith needs to be present.

What Jesus' death did was atone for sins, but just like in the old covenant if one did not humble themselves, the atonement was not applied.

One doesn't have to receive the gift of Salvation. One can neglect it.


Hebrews 2:3-4
KJV
how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


many saw Jesus heal the sick and feed thousands, yet they walked away from him after telling them He was the bread that came down from Heaven. All walked away, and then Jesus asked the Disciples, "Are you going to leave too? Peter asked where we were to go.

"YOU have the words to Eternal Life."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Our faith in Christ comes by way of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit who removes our heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. This work prepares us to receive the word of God in belief. Without this work, we will remain spiritually dead and without hope.
This is so important that Christ tells us that He must go to the Father and the Spirit will be sent to be with us forever. He tells His followers in John 7:38-39
38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
He also tells them in John 15 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
This is indeed a mysterious work. For we are told in John 3:8 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

In the reading of the above scripture, it seems clear to me that the work of the Spirit will not be done for all people (the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive). It also seems clear that we have absolutely nothing to contribute to this work (The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes.)

When we credit ourselves in any way for the miracle of re-birth, are we committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Just Asking!

It is your responsibility to either believe or to reject.

God gave us free will. People claim God created evil. Well this is not true. What God did was give mankind the freedom to chose. Because God, being a relational person. wants to have a relationship.

The only other option would be God made you a robot. where you do what he wants only and are unable to do anything else.. There can be no relationship in this

So in effect. Giving mankind free will. He gave mankind the ability to chose self over God. which is in itself evil..