Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

"Will" being the key word, because it implies moral responsibility, whereas saying natural man "cannot" seek Christ implies innocence by reason of insanity or else blaming God for "unabling" instead of enabling them.

Yes, a will in evil hearts will never seek Christ because it cannot. An evil heart needs to be replaced with a godly one.

 

[cv5]

Did the Pharisees truly understand? If they truly had, would they have wanted to murder Jesus?

1 Cor 2:8
8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
ESV

True understanding comes only through the God-given gift of the Fear of the Lord!

Job 28:28
28 And he said to man,
'The fear of the Lord — that is wisdom,
and to shun evil is understanding.'"
NIV

And,

Prov 16:6
6 Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil.
NIV

The Pharisees had no true spiritual understanding because their hearts were full of evil.

Wrong again @Rufus . Take consolation in knowing that your uninterrupted losing streak remains fully intact.

Mat 21:38 - But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

 

[Rufus]

God allows His love/will (John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4) to be thwarted,
but those who contradict it will reap the just consequence (Rom. 2:1-16, John 3:18).

Then God's purposes can be thwarted which contradicts scripture. And you love lies so much you could care less about contradictions.

 

[Rufus]

Wrong again @Rufus . Take consolation in knowing that your uninterrupted losing streak remains fully intact.

Mat 21:38 - But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Another lover of contradictions! Self-deceived people quite often understand what they WANT to understand, which quite often does not align with true3 spiritual understanding.

 

[Rufus]

Did you read what was written, Rufus? ... I'll bold the part you seem to have overlooked ...

reneweddaybyday said:​

you are purposefully misconstruing what was stated ... I said God's glory in creation is one of the ways God draws mankind to Himself.​

​

Creation is not the only way God draws mankind.​

​

The written Word is another way ... God sending faithful believers to speak the truth is another way ... and first and foremost is God sending His Son ... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16) ... And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).​

​

talk about argumentative ... sheesh ...​

"God sending faithful believers to speak the truth is another way" ... is that not the Holy Spirit working within the believer to draw the unbeliever to Christ? ... and notice I did not refer to the unbeliever as "elect" because until the unbeliever is part of the body of the Elect (the Lord Jesus Christ), he or she is just an unbeliever ... one part of the whole pool of humanity.

Or is it your claim that the Holy Spirit approaches the unbeliever directly and starts speaking to him or her?





Please define "FWer" or "freewiller". All of the definitions of "FWer" or "freewiller" provided thus far do not apply to me.





That you claim I omitted the work of the Holy Spirit does not equal my having omitted the work of the Holy Spirit in drawing unbelievers to the Lord Jesus Christ.

again ... talk about argumentative ... sheesh ...

.

IOW, you're railing now against the truth of my post to which you are replying. I said you omitted the Holy Spirit, and you did! ZERO mention of the Holy Spirit. Don't blame me for your shortcomings and failures.

 

[Rufus]

That's why we have a [potential] Saviour.

FTFY!

 

[Jordon]

Did the Pharisees truly understand? If they truly had, would they have wanted to murder Jesus?

1 Cor 2:8
8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
ESV

True understanding comes only through the God-given gift of the Fear of the Lord!

Job 28:28
28 And he said to man,
'The fear of the Lord — that is wisdom,
and to shun evil is understanding.'"
NIV

And,

Prov 16:6
6 Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil.
NIV

The Pharisees had no true spiritual understanding because their hearts were full of evil.

...

Wrong again @Rufus . Take consolation in knowing that your uninterrupted losing streak remains fully intact.

Mat 21:38 - But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

. Both points are valid but Rufus post does have a spiritual meaning

Your quote is cv5 is more about a political perspective, your quote can be seen as more focused as a threat to power,

As the arrival of the son posed a direct threat to the husband men in Matthew 21:38 because they where likely not willing to accept a shift in power

 

[cv5]

If that's the case, then God's will has clearly been thwarted, which constitutes a contradiction in the bible.

No it doesn't. You see, since God shows no partiality, those who do well gain favor and blessings. Those who do evil get judgement and cursing.

God's will, rather than being thwarted, is in fact fulfilled....God choosing to manifest His will in the former group, the faithful and believing.

 

[Jordon]

No it doesn't. You see, since God shows no partiality, those who do well gain favor and blessings. Those who do evil get judgement and cursing.

God's will, rather than being thwarted, is in fact fulfilled....God choosing to manifest His will in the former group, the faithful and believing.

his living fear in the unsaved causes them to have hope

I believe Rufus is correct here

 

[sawdust]

Well it looked like you where using your own compassion to say Rufus was at fault for people being born with a depraved heart was evil, on his part to me. Sad that you would just look at depraved as something to be his fault, even sadder that you don't see the real intension of people here, and see yours as more fitting.

In reality I've never known a child that doesn't display selfishness, am I mean to say that about children ?

Well i don't think so because if couldn't see there selfishness I couldn't fix it.

You completely misunderstood so don't then go on to accuse me of something I never said.

 

[sawdust]

FTFY!

Keep your opinions to yourself.

 

[BillyBob]

BUT, the believer must be WILLING and FAITHFUL to do His will, and His will is always to bless us.

It is my thought that both the potential and possibility to be of service to God is available to all men, they are not required to be the Elect of God.

Example:

• There is a man Joe who absolutely has no desire for God.
• He sees several Christians who are unable to attend church due to physical disabilities.
• He decides to pick them up each Sunday, take them to church, then come back after the service and return them home safely.
• Joe is working for the Lord, even though he is unaware of this fact!
• What is Joe's standing before God?

Can God cause a non-believer to perform His work?
Must the non-believer be willing?
God directs the steps of all men!
Are there examples in scripture which show God's power to use whoever He wishes to accomplish His desire?

 

[Jordon]

You completely misunderstood so don't then go on to accuse me of something I never said.

oh you see when someone says it looks like your doing x y c that's giving you the opportunity explain, where as you take that to mean I said your doing x y c

To bad your once again so sensitive and once again painting the picture of people saying something they haven't whilst not acknowledging your own comments

 

[sawdust]

his living fear in the unsaved causes them to have hope

I believe Rufus is correct here

That doesn't even make sense. They are unsaved because they have rejected God so how can anything of His be in them to give hope?

Sometimes I wonder if you make things up just so you can have something to say.

 

[Jordon]

That doesn't even make sense. They are unsaved because they have rejected God so how can anything of His be in them to give hope?

Sometimes I wonder if you make things up just so you can have something to say.

are you miserable today ?

 

[sawdust]

It is my thought that both the potential and possibility to be of service to God is available to all men, they are not required to be the Elect of God.

Example:

• There is a man Joe who absolutely has no desire for God.
• He sees several Christians who are unable to attend church due to physical disabilities.
• He decides to pick them up each Sunday, take them to church, then come back after the service and return them home safely.
• Joe is working for the Lord, even though he is unaware of this fact!
• What is Joe's standing before God?

Can God cause a non-believer to perform His work?
Must the non-believer be willing?
God directs the steps of all men!
Are there examples in scripture which show God's power to use whoever He wishes to accomplish His desire?

Joe is working to satisfy his own ego and will end up in the lake of fire because as much as he considered he was doing good? The Lord said it was without faith and unpleasing.

 

[sawdust]

are you miserable today ?

I'm never miserable.

So don't change the subject .... again.

Explain how those who have rejected God can have anything of His in them to give hope? His word is our hope, the unsaved have no word of God.

 

[brightfame52]

I disagree with you and your interpretation of the truth.

You disagree with God

 

[brightfame52]

Yes it is and I have as equal a chance to be correct as you.

That's what you think

 

[Jordon]

I'm never miserable.

So don't change the subject .... again.

Explain how those who have rejected God can have anything of His in them to give hope? His word is our hope, the unsaved have no word of God.

sounds like your forcing your will again