Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[JimiSurvivor]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first. I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, (I) think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

To those teachers who taught in the early centuries - PRIOR to the "Reformers" (Martin Luther, Zwingli, and John Calvin) FREE WILL meant moral agency - our ability to either submit and surrender ourselves to the Holy Spirit or to resist Him and follow our desires. As early Christian martyr Ignatius of Antioch wrote:

Seeing, then, all things have an end, and there is set before us life upon our observance [of God’s precepts], but death as the result of disobedience, and every one, according to the choice he makes, shall go to his own place, let us flee from death, and make the choice of life. If any one is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice.
(Ignatius of Antioch ~100AD – Epistle to the Magnesians, Ch. 5)
These ideas are contrary to the belief common to most pagan religions of the time - many of which taught that human action depended not on their choices but had been pre-determined by the invisible manipulations of FATE.

Apologist Justin Martyr argued that if man were unable to submit to God and seek His help then God could not fairly judge him.
“But lest some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever happens, happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Since if it be not so, but all things happen by fate, neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it be fated that this man, e.g., be good, and this other evil, neither is the former meritorious nor the latter to be blamed. And again, unless the human race have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be.
(Justin Martyr ~155AD – First Apology, Ch. 43)
This was the universal view of Christians centuries before the Reformers were born.

 

[cv5]

What is it that Causes God to give you the ability to believe?

That is the real question.

Does God simply go... "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?"

Please make sense.

That's all we ask.

He is mindlessly regurgitating Reformed dogma, good sense has nothing whatever to do with the action.

 

[cv5]

To those teachers who taught in the early centuries - PRIOR to the "Reformers" (Martin Luther, Zwingli, and John Calvin) FREE WILL meant moral agency - our ability to either submit and surrender ourselves to the Holy Spirit or to resist Him and follow our desires. As early Christian martyr Ignatius of Antioch wrote:

Seeing, then, all things have an end, and there is set before us life upon our observance [of God’s precepts], but death as the result of disobedience, and every one, according to the choice he makes, shall go to his own place, let us flee from death, and make the choice of life. If any one is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice.
(Ignatius of Antioch ~100AD – Epistle to the Magnesians, Ch. 5)
These ideas are contrary to the belief common to most pagan religions of the time - many of which taught that human action depended not on their choices but had been pre-determined by the invisible manipulations of FATE.

Apologist Justin Martyr argued that if man were unable to submit to God and seek His help then God could not fairly judge him.
“But lest some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever happens, happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Since if it be not so, but all things happen by fate, neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it be fated that this man, e.g., be good, and this other evil, neither is the former meritorious nor the latter to be blamed. And again, unless the human race have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be.
(Justin Martyr ~155AD – First Apology, Ch. 43)
This was the universal view of Christians centuries before the Reformers were born.

Correct. The latter gnostic pseudo-philosophers got the hooks in later.

 

[cv5]

Not what Jesus said Jn 15:16

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Already been de-Calvinized. Try and keep up.

 

[brightfame52]

What is it that Causes God to give you the ability to believe?

In behalf of Christ.

 

[Genez]

. Can satan make you believe,

Yes... believe a lie.


What is your point?

You take pleasure in thinking you are frustrating believers who you feel do not see you as an equal.

 

[Magenta]

Apologist Justin Martyr argued that if man were unable to submit to God and seek His help then God could not fairly judge him.

Those are two separate concepts. As to the former, of the person without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God,
Scripture says they are controlled by the flesh, and says further that flesh cannot please God, cannot obey
or submit to God, serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. See Romans 8 verses 6-9. The
mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God. Such a person is opposed to the Spiritual things of God and
refuses to come into the light being a slave to sin, and lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself.
They do not even belong to Christ at that point. However, those given to Jesus by God will come to Him.

Romans 8 v 5-9 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[Jordon]

Yes... believe a lie.


What is your point?

You take pleasure in thinking you are frustrating believers who you feel do not see you as an equal.

so satan can make a person believe but God can't ?

What master are you serving sir ?

Does satan give you a choice to not believe his way ? As satan makes people believe by speaking to there desires and there free will, he uses deception to make them believe, he appeals to the weakness of there vulnerable human desire, choice and free will. Such is there easy free will to be made to believe in Satan, by satan, but yet you still believe People can believe God so easily, and don't need to made to believe by God. ( Do you see your joke of the matter now, well you need to.

Satan also works through false teachings and ideologies to draw people to him and away from God. And your remarks as far I'm concerned are not consistent with God's word.

So why would God not want to make you believe his way,

Let me guess that would still be forceful, or maybe for once you can see his word needs to burn in your heart to make you not believe satan and make you believe him.

This is a fundamental teaching in our church.

 

[Genez]

evidently you know more about racist behaviour than you do God which makes you believe the rubbish you write

You are just a snooty kid.


Get answers!
They will cause you to mature into the image of Christ.

But that takes humility.
It takes humility to accept having to be humble.
Requiring that you take up your cross and deal with your "feelings" that with you get easily offended.
For the Word of God wants to make you transformed.
But it has to be done only via sound doctrine.
Not dogma simply to feed your emotions and to bond with others with a similar emotional pattern.

​

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed ​

into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.​

​

2 Corinthians 3:18​

 

[Jordon]

You are just a snooty kid.

obviously now your trying to make people believe by insulting people once again sir

 

[Genez]

so satan can make a person believe but God can't ?

But it is you who must CHOOSE to either believe the lie, or the truth.
It is your volition that determines what God is to do with you!

And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, ​

whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods ​

of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”​

Joshua 24:15

The false teaching you accepted has caused you to lose your humanity.

 

[rogerg]

Those are two separate concepts. As to the former, of the person without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God,
Scripture says they are controlled by the flesh, and says further that flesh cannot please God, cannot obey
or submit to God, serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. See Romans 8 verses 6-9. The
mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God. Such a person is opposed to the Spiritual things of God and
refuses to come into the light being a slave to sin, and lover of darkness, defined as darkness itself.
They do not even belong to Christ at that point. However, those given to Jesus by God will come to Him.

Romans 8 v 5-9 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Why would anyone even consider basing their argument upon a source outside of the Bible? They are choosing man's wisdom to judge God's.

 

[Jordon]

But it is you who must CHOOSE to either believe the lie, or the truth.
It is your volition that determines what God is to do with you!

​

and now where back to the but ideology,​

​

There's no but here sir

Does satan give you a choice to stop serving him ?

 

[Genez]

Does satan give you a choice to not believe his way ? As satan makes people believe by speaking to there desires and there free will,

So that's the problem!

You equate free will as having to follow your sin nature!

 

[Genez]

Does satan give you a choice to stop serving him ?

Why should he have to?
For you have your own God-given volition of soul!

God created us in His image, and our volition is sovereign in how we will privately choose.
Choose either in ignorance and weakness...
Or, in strength, via obtained knowledge and wisdom.

We must choose to find genuine knowledge and wisdom.
Then God will provide.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

You make the error that many do by conflating having a choice with having free will. Nor does having a human will mean that it is free, because it [our will] is constrained by far too many factors to be considered truly free, Especially as a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is taken captive to the will of the devil. The will of the natural man is inherently in opposition to God and hostile to Him.

True, no one seeks help until they are convinced they had a serious problem that they were unable to solve.

Our stubornness usually have to be driven to trust God by the torment of living in the flesh and being unable to conquer it. The person described in Romans 7 was an exemplar of such a life.

that is personal suggestion born out of free will and personal testimony putting limitations on God from the moment a person is born help is available and made known by God Romans 1:20
Psalms 19:1-4

Acts 14:17

Matthew 18:10

God knows your beginning from the end,

The good news is all deeds are in his light which means he makes everyone aware inwardly,

Romans 2:15,

1 John 3:20

I agree that God makes people (to varying degrees) aware of their need for the Savior. Only apostates can become totally insensitive to His drawing

 

[Genez]

so satan can make a person believe but God can't ?

You are confusing, convincing someone by means of providing evidence, with making them do something against their will.
No wonder you are confused.

 

[Jordon]

Why should he have to?
For you have your own God-given volition of soul!

God created us in His image, and our volition is sovereign in how we will privately choose.
Choose either in ignorance and weakness...
Or, in strength, via obtained knowledge and wisdom.

We must choose to find genuine knowledge and wisdom.
Then God will provide.

obviously your in denial,

Why should satan have to give you a choice is no answer at all.

The answer is he doesn't

And still you won't even acknowledge why God has to make you a believe,

 

[Jordon]

So that's the problem!

You equate free will as having to follow your sin nature!

No I was equating Satan to giving you no choice at all, which you twisted

 

[Jordon]

You are confusing, convincing someone by means of providing evidence, with making them do something against their will.
No wonder you are confused.

You confuse your own thoughts and inflations of those thoughts, with something that has value over God making a person a believe is what you do,