Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Hello. Is there anyone home ?

On the one hand they want us to believe they understand that which they oppose but on the other
hand they keep presenting material that shows they are completely ignorant of their own ignorance.

Either that or the material they present is designed to deceive. It could be both, actually.

Talking out of both sides of their mouth is not a good look for them, though.

 

[Jordon]

On the one hand they want us to believe they understand that which they oppose but on the other
hand they keep presenting material that shows they are completely ignorant of their own ignorance.

exactly, and I've been trying as well as you have to show them there own ignorance,

By now they should of got it, but really there all stubborn, and can't admit there in the wrong,

All the sarcastic free willers in this thread constantly cut of there noses to spite there face

 

[brightfame52]

Show me the Bible Verse then because I can present many that prove you are wrong.

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

While in a lost condition the gospel is hid from our minds by the devils blindness and we cant believe while lost. Now the antithesis is when in a saved condition [from the blindness of the devil] we believe.

 

[sawdust]

in our case, we are set free from our bondage when we are born again ... and we freely pledge to serve the Lord Jesus Christ the whole of our life.

Bolded the operative word. Our slavery to Christ is nothing like our slavery to sin which was my point not they we are not slaves to Christ.

 

[sawdust]

What do you mean by authority? what does authority have to do with freedom?
But no you misunderstand slavery to Christ does not mean perfect freedom in fact it means perfect sumbission you no longer have a will of your own because you desire to have the will of the father you trade your (free will) for the will of Christ



1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

What does authority have to do with freedom? What happened when Adam ignored the Lord's authority? Without authority there is no freedom, only chaos. Authority is what sets the boundaries and limitations according to the nature of a thing so that it can freely be the thing it is to its fullest potential.

Of course I have a will of my own. How do you think we still sin? Christ had a will of His own John 6:38. It's how one uses their will that matters. In Christ we are free to use our will for His glory, in bondage to sin we are not free to do anything but our own will. I never "traded" my will for Christ's (would have solved many problems instantly if that were the case) rather, I simply learnt to delight in doing my Father's will as Christ did.

Are you going to keep ignoring John 8:36 and say we do not have perfect freedom in Christ? What do you think you are submitting to if not the Lord''s authority? It is His authority that makes us perfectly free to become the perfect human. Is Christ not the perfect human and are we not to grow up to be just like Him?

1Cor.6:19 states to whom we belong. It does not signify what that ownership is like or how it works or how we experience it.

 

[lrs68]

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Act 18:27
And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

[Phl 1:28-29 KJV]
28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

@lrs68

Forgot to include this one

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

None of this shows us that Regeneration takes place before hearing the Gospel preached and believing.

Seriously, I thought you were going to present something that I was never aware of before.

 

[lrs68]

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and so they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

While in a lost condition the gospel is hid from our minds by the devils blindness and we cant believe while lost. Now the antithesis is when in a saved condition [from the blindness of the devil] we believe.

If someone hears the Gospel preached and then believes that means it's not hid.

 

[Magenta]

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[cv5]

No one believes that their free will saves them. This is another smear by Calvinists to accuse non-calvinists of saving themselves.

If a beggar asks me for lunch and I provide him with a sandwich - he did not contribute anything to the sandwich.

It is crazy that this "system" views faith in Christ as both not a condition for salvation and as earning salvation.

Crazy.
Cognitive Dissonance once again.

Christ is providing salvation sandwiches to anyone who wants one. All that you have to do is ask.

 

[rogerg]

None of this shows us that Regeneration takes place before hearing the Gospel preached and believing.

Seriously, I thought you were going to present something that I was never aware of before.

Seriously, each of them does. The problem is with your comprehension. Guess that goes a long way in explaining why you believe the way you do. If you are actually able to comprehend them, then refute them.

 

[Magenta]

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

 

[Magenta]

Seriously, each of them does. The problem is with your comprehension. Guess that goes a long way in explaining
why you believe the way you do. If you are actually able to comprehend them, then refute them.

This is why they must rewrite, contradict, and/or deny 1 Cor 2:14, ascribing to the natural man what is only possible of the spiritual man.

As well as other verses.

 

[Magenta]

No one believes that their free will saves them. This is another smear by Calvinists to accuse non-calvinists of saving themselves.

If a beggar asks me for lunch and I provide him with a sandwich - he did not contribute anything to the sandwich.

It is crazy that this "system" views faith in Christ as both not a condition for salvation and as earning salvation.

Crazy.
Cognitive Dissonance once again.

Did you ask to be saved? Oh, wait a minute, what was I thinking?

You did not need God to intervene to bring you to belief.

You did it all on your own! Eh. You contradict Scripture.

Nothing new there. Moving along...

 

[Genez]

No one believes that their free will saves them. This is another smear by Calvinists to accuse non-calvinists of saving themselves.

If a beggar asks me for lunch and I provide him with a sandwich - he did not contribute anything to the sandwich.

It is crazy that this "system" views faith in Christ as both not a condition for salvation and as earning salvation.

Crazy.
Cognitive Dissonance once again.

I noticed something recently....

If I saw a demon telling me the exact same thing about free will concerning the believer?
That way would make sense.
For it shows disdain for the saved person, and shows a desire to get him to hate himself.

Nail on the Head time!

 

[Magenta]

Surely (if you are saved) you heard of Him and were taught in Him—in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus—
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be renewed
in the spirit of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness,
If you love the old self more than the new there is something wrong with you!

 

[rogerg]

This is why they must rewrite contradict and deny 1 Cor 2:14, ascribing to the natural man what is only possible of the spiritual man.

As well as others.

Definitely, Magenta - and his reply clearly tells us that he couldn't refute those verses. He tried to slip in a quick and easy duck because he wanted to avoid answering, but he didn't even do a good job of that. We've seen it all before - a typical tactic of the FW types.

 

[Rufus]

yep.

.

Nope! God draws Christ's friends to Him for whom he laid down his life, not his enemies. God draws the humble to the Son, not the proud that he detests. John 12 does not teach that all mankind in the distributive sense will be drawn to Christ. It does teach that men from all nations will be drawn to him. Even the context of the chapter itself bears out this interpretation.

Furthermore, your interpretation cannot be true because Jesus said in Jn 6 that whosoever the Father gives to the Son, the son will raise him up [to life] on the last day -- an unconditional statement. So, if God gives every human being to Jesus, then every human being on the planet is saved.

 

[Jordon]

I noticed something recently....

If I saw a demon telling me the exact same thing about free will concerning the believer?
That way would make sense.
For it shows disdain for the saved person, and shows a desire to get him to hate himself.

Nail on the Head time!

sounds like you've been listening to the demons again

How long have these demons been around you and are you scared ?

 

[Jordon]

Christ is providing salvation sandwiches to anyone who wants one. All that you have to do is ask.

I believe your sandwich may well be toast

 

[Magenta]

Definitely, Magenta - and his reply clearly tells us that he couldn't refute those verses. He tried to slip in
a quick and easy duck because he wanted to avoid answering, but he didn't even do a good job of that.
We've seen it all before - a typical tactic of the FW types.

There is much said of the natural man and nowhere is he said to be free to choose, in fact Scripture makes
plain he is not free at all. But for some strange reason these heretics want to believe otherwise, especially
those who claim God was not even required to bring them to belief. That claim alone flies squarely in the
face of what Scripture plainly teaches but they care not, and actually contradict Scripture in a great many
places, denying what is said, rewriting even the words of Jesus, and making up other stuff that isn't in Scripture.