Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

There is a “general call” which goes out to all men. This call is refused by most men, yet leaves them with no excuse. However, the “effectual call” by the Holy Spirit cannot be refused. It is a call that works a change in those to whom it is sent. A change that provides us with a saving knowledge and a desire to know God.
Effectual means exactly what it infers, it will not fail to achieve its purpose. Only the Elect receive this drawing to Christ.
Being Elect does not mean that you are a Calvinist, it means you are God's chosen!
God has always had a chosen people. . . . . . and it is His purpose to save them.

It strikes me as very odd that people conflate having volition with the will being free, just as they conflate knowing God exists with actually knowing God, and conflate being drawn with being called, conflate their rejection of a multitude of Scriptures which they contradict and deny as believing the Bible. Yes, very odd indeed! The pretenses they erect trying to disguise how much they pervert the truth as below:

Yes and let us clarify, only the Calvies are "effectually" drawn.

 

[Jordon]

you wouldn't have to repeat yourself if you had actually provided the post number ... which you never did, notwithstanding your insistence that you did.

You know ... and Magenta knows ... you have yet to provide factual support for claims made.

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

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Well I'm not a false witness, I'm not a liar neither am I ignorant, and using scripture to condemn me for absolutely nothing, shows your ill intent, your just plain old stubborn

I told you I would not show you again because this is exactly how I know your going to respond.

I showed you the post, you point blank dismissed it,

I'm under no obligation to give you want you want, which is you want to prove people wrong, even when the truth is staring you in the face, which makes you a difficult person to talk to.

Goodbye

 

[Magenta]

Well I'm not a false witness, I'm not a liar neither am I ignorant, and using scripture to
condemn me for absolutely nothing, shows your ill intent, your just plain old stubborn

They were not even the only one to enter threads like these breathing out lies.

It is like a pandemic.

 

[Rufus]

is it your claim that natural man is given a new heart "long before" he or she hears the gospel?





My comments concerning Ephesians 1:13 were in response to BillyBob's claim that "regeneration ... could take place years before actual trust and belief in the word of Christ".


BillyBob said: [bold mine]

I am of the opinion that regeneration must come first. In fact, I believe that it could take place years before actual trust and belief in the work of Christ. But, it certainly must come first.​

Regeneration is simply God giving you a new heart in order to believe. This must be done because we are unable to even so much as desire the things of God.​

In my case, I am convinced that the Spirit was working in me several years before actually placing my trust in Christ.​

Regeneration equals born again. The word "regeneration" is translated from the Greek word paliggenesía ... which means born again.

3824 paliggenesía – the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.​

​

3824 /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).​

HELPS Word-studies​

according to Ephesians 1:13 ...

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

you trust when you hear the word of truth ... not before
you believe when you hear the gospel of your salvation ... not before
you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise when you believed the gospel of salvation ... not before


As far as BillyBob being "convinced that the Spirit was working in [him] several years before actually placing [his] trust in Christ" ... the Holy Spirit has always/is now/will continue in the future to reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. Was the Holy Spirit "reproving" BillyBob? ... as opposed to "regenerating" BillyBob?

.

Re your "new heart" question: Sure, why not? At some point in Cornelius' life, he was apparently given a new heart with a godly disposition in it prior to his conversion to the Faith. He didn't receive the Fear of the Lord grace at the point of conversion or afterwards.

Re your comments on Regeneration: I disagree. In being true to the metaphor, physical life does not begin at birth. Neither does it with spiritual life. Regeneration is [resurrection] life infused into the soul that efficaciously leads that soul to seek escape from the dark womb so that it can see (become consciously aware of) the Light of Life therein and, of course, of the Divine Giver of that precious gift.

 

[Jordon]

Truth matters.

Yes it does but in the wrong hands it's lethal, and if it mattered to you so much why do you constantly label peoples genuine true faith as absolutely nothing. ..

Truth is for setting people free, and all these people your hurting are nice people,

Truth is for setting people free not hiding behind it to use it against people,

 

[Rufus]

They have blinded themselves.

When speaking to Calvinists, it is not like speaking to someone with a different opinion or a different view.

There is a reason they must constantly remove their proof text from the surrounding context.
It is not a genuine discussion.

Those who are trained to employ many different tactics like redirection, post hoc rationalizations, cherry picking verses etc.,
They are looking for converts to the system.

They must present the system as being the ultimate truth, the highest level of understanding so that people will be persuaded by it.

Notice how they they will eventually come to "you are saving yourself" false accusation.

This is a tactic they employ,.....guilt, accuse people of taking glory away from God.

It is all psychological, and the people who fall for this false "system" tend to fall into a certain group.
Sometimes the "covert" part fails and they show who they really are.

It is really sad this system has become ubiquitous in the churches because it never used to be.

On the other hand, there is not a text in the bible that says because of our freewill choices we are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30).

And for your further info, Satan loves to play with and manipulate the minds of men. That's exactly what he did in the Garden. And God allowed him to succeed.

 

[Magenta]

I've just been waiting candy whilst setting a new world record at Fuji, wahooo. Long live the Calvies

Is this a simulation race? Congrats to you!

 

[Magenta]

On the other hand, there is not a text in the bible that says because of our freewill choices we are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30).

And for your further info, Satan loves to play with and manipulate the minds of men. That's exactly what he did in the Garden. And God allowed him to succeed.

They believe themselves to be better than Adam. Some do not believe Adam's deliberate sin had
any effect on the rest of humanity. It always kind of amazes me when anyone calls Adam perfect.

 

[Magenta]

On the other hand, there is not a text in the bible that says because of our freewill choices we are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30).

1 Corinthians 1 v 30-31 ~ It is because of God that you are in Christ Jesus, Who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, holiness, and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

 

[Jordon]

Is this a simulation race? Congrats to you!

I'm putting a logo on the back of me race car called long live the Calvies then I'm going to win the race haha

 

[HeIsHere]

On the other hand, there is not a text in the bible that says because of our freewill choices we are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30).

And for your further info, Satan loves to play with and manipulate the minds of men. That's exactly what he did in the Garden. And God allowed him to succeed.

No one believes that their free will saves them. This is another smear by Calvinists to accuse non-calvinists of saving themselves.

If a beggar asks me for lunch and I provide him with a sandwich - he did not contribute anything to the sandwich.

It is crazy that this "system" views faith in Christ as both not a condition for salvation and as earning salvation.

Crazy.
Cognitive Dissonance once again.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Says the person who entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations, then talking about how Christians ought to behave!

more unverifiable accusations ...

Don't expect me to try to find all your lies.

The only post I've asked you to provide is ...

Magenta said:​

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

reneweddaybyday said:​

please provide the post submitted wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

if you'd provide that post, we can confirm whether your claim is factual or not ... and that would also confirm whether your statement that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" is factual or not.

.

 

[Jordon]

more unverifiable accusations ...





The only post I've asked you to provide is ...

Magenta said:​

Unfortunately free willers think they are clever to present mothers loving and caring for their children as "evil."​

reneweddaybyday said:​

please provide the post submitted wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

if you'd provide that post, we can confirm whether your claim is factual or not ... and that would also confirm whether your statement that I "entered this thread breathing out lies and false accusations" is factual or not.

.

last time she was replying to a discussion I was in where the sarcastic free willer said any good works and unbeliever does is evil.

Notice the word any

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I showed you the post

not true

.

 

[Blain]

Then why are you trying to argue that being free is wrong when you recognise slavery to Christ is perfect freedom?

Do you not understand freedom cannot exist without authority?

What do you mean by authority? what does authority have to do with freedom?
But no you misunderstand slavery to Christ does not mean perfect freedom in fact it means perfect sumbission you no longer have a will of your own because you desire to have the will of the father you trade your (free will) for the will of Christ



1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

 

[HeIsHere]

not true

.

They have twisted the dialogue between myself and @Kroogz to something it was not.

They are so very desperate, taking a post out of context and then making spurious accusations.

Should we really be surprised, no not really, they treat the Bible the same way, one verse from here and totally unrelated, out of context verse from over there and viola!! ...... The System!

 

[HeIsHere]

last time she was replying to a discussion I was in where the sarcastic free willer said any good works and unbeliever does is evil.

Notice the word any

I never stated any such thing.

 

[Magenta]

They have twisted the dialogue between myself and @Kroogz to something it was not.

You both talk as if calvies believe only calvies are saved. But of course your lack of honesty and inability
to accept what Scripture actually says prevent either of you from acknowledging the truth of the matter.

Some of you -including you- go on and on about Calvin. He did not write the Bible. I believe the Bible.

I also hope nobody believes your misrepresentations of Scripture. You have a long list of errors.

Or your misrepresentations of the man Calvin for that matter.

Your logical fallacies are not effective.

 

[Jordon]

Giving to the poor through the Spirit is divine Good. Giving to the poor through your Flesh....is evil/human good/ human deeds/human works.

It is not a sin for unbelievers to give to the poor......But it is evil/human good/human deeds/human works.

I never stated any such thing.

not true

.

so this is the sarcastic free willer saying any good works and unbeliever does is evil

So the moral of the story is, no it's not because God can make them do good.

Where as the sarcastic free willer ie Mr kroogz wanted to make magenta looked bad,

Well if the sarcastic free willer is saying any good works an unbeliever does is evil, well I suppose he must be saying caring for your children also is evil to.


Hello. Is there anyone home ?

 

[Jordon]

They have twisted the dialogue between myself and @Kroogz to something it was not.

They are so very desperate, taking a post out of context and then making spurious accusations.

Should we really be surprised, no not really, they treat the Bible the same way, one verse from here and totally unrelated, out of context verse from over there and viola!! ...... The System!

nope your chubby checker in disguise