Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[HeIsHere]

Grace is given so individuals come to faith...for by grace...
Grace always precedes faith.

Paul makes clear what he means when he states "by grace" and nowhere does he state it is for the "specially created only for salvation elitist group" concept you want it to be.

The context makes clear that Paul is speaking about the historical fact of grace expressed in the death of Christ to secure salvation for humanity.

"To the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace”
Eph 1:6-7

Faith first >>>>God's Condition.

#ContextKillsCalvinism

 

[Magenta]

nowhere does he state it is for the "specially created only for salvation elitist group" concept you want it to be.

Cameron never said that. Free willers like you misrepresent as a matter of course.

 

[Cameron143]

Paul makes clear what he means when he states "by grace" and nowhere does he state it is for the "specially created only for salvation elitist group" concept you want it to be.

The context makes clear that Paul is speaking about the historical fact of grace expressed in the death of Christ to secure salvation for humanity.

"To the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace”
Eph 1:6-7

Faith first >>>>God's Condition.

#ContextKillsCalvinism

It is difficult to have a discussion with you because you inject so much presupposition about scripture and others. For example, I have never spoken of an elitist group. That is a product of your poor understanding and deliberate attempts to impugn others.
Grace clearly comes before faith, your denial of this truth notwithstanding.

 

[Magenta]

It is difficult to have a discussion with you because you inject so much presupposition about scripture and others. For example,
I have never spoken of an elitist group. That is a product of your poor understanding and deliberate attempts to impugn others.
Grace clearly comes before faith, your denial of this truth notwithstanding.

Denying that grace comes first fits in with her new age belief that people have evolved and do not need divine intervention
in order to come to belief even though this decidedly and very definitely contradicts what Scripture teaches on the matter.

 

[HeIsHere]

Reformed Doctrine of Compatibilism

Aka inconsistent Calvinism.

So much rhetoric to keep for those who question the system .. books, and more books, expounding, explaining, one theory after another.

Let us see what Mr. John Hendryx (monergism.com) states on the matter...

In order to understand this better theologians have come up with the term "compatibilism" to describe the concurrence of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Compatibilism is a form of determinism and it should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism. It simply means that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. Our choices are not coerced ...i.e. we do not choose against what we want or desire, yet we never make choices contrary to God's sovereign decree. What God determines will always come to pass (Eph 1:11).
Link

Yup, so the man tortured, raped and killed the 10 year old girl, he had a choice and God determined that choice.
Compatibilism is basically saying “Mankind is doing what it wants and what it wants is determined by God.
He is God and can do whatever He wants!”

Yeah, just another speculation developed Calvinism as a reaction to how strong “volition/will/choice language” is in the Bible,
Calvinism has to find a way to explain away scripture sounding so “free willish” yet still cling to its determinism.

 

[HeIsHere]

It is difficult to have a discussion with you because you inject so much presupposition about scripture and others. For example, I have never spoken of an elitist group. That is a product of your poor understanding and deliberate attempts to impugn others.
Grace clearly comes before faith, your denial of this truth notwithstanding.

Paul makes it clear what "grace" means when it comes to individual salvation several times, yeah I tire of your "election theory" I will admit.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Good day sis, I suppose today is a new day, but can it be a renewed one

yep (2 Cor 4:16)

Rufus queried "I wonder if God is the Primary/Ultimate Cause behind "forcing" his covenant people to obedience? I don't see anything in the passage that says God first seeks his chosen people's permission to mess around with their "sacred freewill"."

so I asked him "whose "will" is "forcing" you when you sin?"

still waiting for an answer ...

Well to answer this questions we need to understand a few things

k

how can people sin without him, when Gods inherent will is inherent to everyone from the moment there born and all deeds are seen in the light and not one person is without excuse, which means all are made aware, ?

not an answer ...

How is it that all are made aware and know ?

not an answer ...

Well when a person's sins who is born of the fruits of the spirit, I wonder sis is God in you to scared to not see the sin you are committing ?

not an answer ...

And when a person as in an unbeliever is being built up in the heart by God, is God to scared to see the sin he is committing, ?

not an answer ...

Well to answer theses question

We have the devine natures of the the father the son the holy spirit, and all devine natures are all equal to each other, so I wonder sis, who's devine nature is in the person having his heart built up before being filled with the fruits of the spirit, and who's devine nature is in the the person who has been born of the fruits of the spirit ?

not an answer ...

Hmm i wonder who can the light up the way

not an answer ...

I'll just leave it to Rufus to answer since he's the one who made the claim.

.

 

[Jordon]

yep (2 Cor 4:16)





k





not an answer ...





not an answer ...





not an answer ...





not an answer ...





not an answer ...



not an answer ...

I'll just leave it to Rufus to answer since he's the one who made the claim.

.

ok suit yourself

 

[HeIsHere]

It is difficult to have a discussion with you because you inject so much presupposition about scripture and others. For example, I have never spoken of an elitist group. That is a product of your poor understanding and deliberate attempts to impugn others.
Grace clearly comes before faith, your denial of this truth notwithstanding.

I am not really interested in a discussion, I am only interested in demonstrating why these so called "doctrines of grace" are not supported by scripture in context.

Faith precedes regeneration, and faith is the condition set by God >>>>>correct evanagelical Christianity.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

AHH the imaginary Calvie free will scenario continues,

right ... imaginary ...

1 Corinthians 12:12-18

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

I would recommend if you've had enough, then maybe find another thread

a high percentage of threads on this site eventually result in the imaginary scenario of "calvie" / "FWer" ... sad but true ...

As this thread is all about will and the Calvies,

But when it comes to the true calvies i do believe they have a Good will

do you believe the imaginary "FWers" have a "Good will" ???

.

 

[Magenta]

how strong “volition/will/choice language” is in the Bible

Do you mean, taken captive to do the will of the devil? That is your idea of freedom.

You must think the devil's will is for you to choose God.

Free will is not taught in the Bible. At all.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

I'm still waiting for Magenta to provide the post wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

you'll have to go back a few posts before where the sarcastic free willer said when an unbeliver does good there doing evil

I think I'll wait for Magenta to provide the post number ... and, thus far, crickets from Magenta ... what are the odds she'll actually provide the info ???

Fixed it for you

nope ... again fixed it for yourself ... if you'd have fixed it for me, you would have provided the post number ... just sayin'

.

 

[Magenta]

I tire of your "election theory" I will admit.

You tire of Scripture which you contradict and deny. But, it is not going away... Maybe one day, God will open your eyes.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Cameron143]

I am not really interested in a discussion, I am only interested in demonstrating why these so called "doctrines of grace" are not supported by scripture in context.

Faith precedes regeneration, and faith is the condition set by God >>>>>correct evanagelical Christianity.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. No mention of any action of men.

If you going to convince people of something, you should learn how to present ideas without offense. The message gets lost for the messenger.

 

[Magenta]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. No mention of any action of men.

If you going to convince people of something, you should learn how to present ideas without offense. The message gets lost for the messenger.

Well, she says everyone hears but we know they don't, Jesus said they don't, and He told us why also, but she does not mind contradicting and denying what Scripture says, or even Jesus; she promotes a LOT of error and has become immune to accepting correction.

 

[Jordon]

do you believe the imaginary "FWers" have a "Good will" ???

.

. Dependa on who's will there led by

reneweddaybyday said:

I'm still waiting for Magenta to provide the post wherein it was claimed that mothers loving and caring for their children is evil.​

I think I'll wait for Magenta to provide the post number ... and, thus far, crickets from Magenta ... what are the odds she'll actually provide the info ???





nope ... again fixed it for yourself ... if you'd have fixed it for me, you would have provided the post number ... just sayin'

.

Ok suit yourself

 

[Jordon]

@Kroogz said:
All sin is evil. But not all evil is sin.

Giving to the poor through the Spirit is divine Good. Giving to the poor through your Flesh....is evil/human good/ human deeds/human works.

It is not a sin for unbelievers to give to the poor......But it is evil/human good/human deeds/human works.

I'll leave you to work it out and suit yourself, but here's a clue the sarcastic free will poster was painting the picture in a sarcastic way, Anyhow since you can have a mind to show magenta as painting the negative picture maybe you could see, she was responding correctly now, but I doubt it. @reneweddaybyday

 

[Genez]

The moral of the story is,.

Don't confuse kindness for weekness

Which you do quite a lot

I call missing the point consistently, and always heading in a wrong direction = evil.
Which you do quite a lot .

 

[HeIsHere]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. No mention of any action of men.

If you going to convince people of something, you should learn how to present ideas without offense. The message gets lost for the messenger.

Context.

16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

Israel heard but did not obey, so therefore we conclude, that faith (trust and obedience) comes by making a personal choice to trust the message.



Closed for Further Questions