Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Most of what you write is kind'a foggy for me, but you state that "God is just". Well, really? Which God? The God of the old testament, the new one or what?

There is only one God, who is righteous/just, and hell lasts until justice is accomplished.
Here is the way I connect the Scriptural dots to explain this. If it is foggy, please do not hesitate to ask for clarification.

The Bible teaches that God is justness or righteousness (Rom. 3:25-26, 9:14, 2Thes. 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (Josh. 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (Isa. 5:16).

God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).

MFW only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (Deut. 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God.

The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (Gen. 3:24, Rev. 22:1-2)

God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (Gen. 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1John 3:8) and humanity (Rom. 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. The first people to choose the evil option were named Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:6). Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word.

God loves a cheerful giver (2Cor. 9:7), which means He desires people to cooperate with Him happily because of love and gratitude for His grace rather than to cower before Him because of fear of hell. Love must be evoked; it cannot be coerced. And again, when souls sin or do NOT choose to love God freely, it is perfectly just (loving and logical) for them to reap the appropriate consequence (Gal. 6:7-9) or hell.

Evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice.

It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (Matt. 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).
 
Sceptical. You are only referring to what bearded men wrote 2000 years ago. Doesn't impress me.
You seem to have a special kind of hobby, referring to the Bible, which is a huge collection of texts written by bearded men some 2-3000 years ago. That is so sweet, but it does not impress me. I have to ask: Why should I trust these bearded men's thoughts to be the so-called truth?
:cool:

Romans1-20-21s.png

Romans 1 v 20-21 Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
 
You suffer from a low opinion of God. God's grace is not irresistible because of force, but because of the overwhelming magnitude of love and mercy and grace that is manifested. If you have ever experienced this, you would know why no one resists it.

Agape is a selfless, unconditional, and sacrificial form of love that prioritizes the good of others without expecting anything in return.

Agape is an impersonal form of love.
It does not take things done in reaction to itself personally.
It does not react to the negativity, and toss that snarling one away from itself.
Agape love is not caused by the object, but by the integrity of the one who is loving by nature. (God is love)

It is like a kindhearted person finding a wounded wild animal caught in a trap.
The kindhearted person wanting to help, will ignore the snarls and snips that the animal might make while he carefully neutralizes the trap.

It is only after the animal is set free, that the animal learns to appreciate the person that he had once shown fear and hatred towards.

That may be an apt way to describe the salvation experience of certain people and how agape love works.
God (agape) loves the sinner who in effect can be resentful of God.

Phileo love, on the other hand. Is personal love. One of personal rapport and mutual respect.
There can be no personal love towards someone showing hatred and resentment.
Only agape love would be able to be in effect.

......
 
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I wonder what part of "none" FWers don't understand?

And we wonder what part of world you dont understand... I heard an anchient Greek manuscript say none only means some and Paul was only speaking to the unsaved Jews when he said that. 🙄🙄
 
Well Magenta, I am an agnostic. However, if you or anyone else can give me a proof of God's existence, then I will no longer be an agnostic. So where is the proof ?

I also notice you said the following:

I am a newcomer at this site christianchat.com
How set against reason, critical thinking and a sceptical mind are you ?
I have to ask: Why should I trust these bearded men's thoughts to be the so-called truth?

Welcome to CC. I see you have gotten cross-ways with Mag already.

I affirm both reason and Scripture, and I have logical reasons to believe the Bible.
If you are seeking ultimate truth, please begin reading Lesson 1 on our website <truthseekersfellowship.com>
and comment or ask me questions as they arise, addressing me on the "Apologetics: Witnessing to Atheists" thread.
Thanks!
 
Our website? Do you mean yours? Do you not know it is against the site rules to promote your site?

I guess you missed the memo that I have dedicated the website to CC folks for use as a resource as they see fit,
and I solicit corrections and additions for it. Would you like to submit something?
(BTW, thanks for the heads up about the seeker being agnostic.)
 
Agape is a selfless, unconditional, and sacrificial form of love that prioritizes the good of others without expecting anything in return.

Agape is an impersonal form of love.
It does not take things done in reaction to itself personally.
It does not react to the negativity, and toss that snarling one away from itself.
Agape love is not caused by the object, but by the integrity of the one who is loving by nature. (God is love)

It is like a kindhearted person finding a wounded wild animal caught in a trap.
The kindhearted person wanting to help, will ignore the snarls and snips that the animal might make while he carefully neutralizes the trap.

It is only after the animal is set free, that the animal learns to appreciate the person that he had once shown fear and hatred towards.

That may be an apt way to describe the salvation experience of certain people and how agape love works.
God (agape) loves the sinner who in effect can be resentful of God.

Phileo love, on the other hand. Is personal love. One of personal rapport and mutual respect.
There can be no personal love towards someone showing hatred and resentment.
Only agape love would be able to be in effect.

......
And when God overwhelms one with such love, you believe the individual will shun such love? I do not.
 
Yep your making sin out to not be evil again.

God
Corrects the sinners and there sins which are seen as wicked deeds.

A weak sinner who keeps falling on the mercy of God via the blood of Christ is NOT evil
It is the person who loves his sin and finds rationalizations for its defense, who is evil.

Jesus did not die for evil.
He died for our sins only.

It's time we learn that there is a difference.

Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.
You must purge the evil from among you.
All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. Deut 21:21.​
But all the evil men and troublemakers among David’s followers said,
“Because they did not go out with us, we will not share with them the
plunder we recovered. However, each man may take his wife and children and go.” 1 Samuel 30:22​
Note...

All men are born sinners by nature.
But, those verses segregated evil men from the sinners.

It's time we learn that there is a difference.
 
A weak sinner who keeps falling on the mercy of God via the blood of Christ is NOT evil
It is the person who loves his sin and finds rationalizations for its defense, who is evil.

Jesus did not die for evil.
He died for our sins only.

It's time we learn that there is a difference.

Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.
You must purge the evil from among you.
All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. Deut 21:21.​
But all the evil men and troublemakers among David’s followers said,
“Because they did not go out with us, we will not share with them the
plunder we recovered. However, each man may take his wife and children and go.” 1 Samuel 30:22​
Note...

All men are born sinners by nature.
But, those verses segregated evil men from the sinners.

It's time we learn that there is a difference.
yep as I thought still saying sin is not evil.

The bible portrays Sin as being evil in many places and separates people from God.

There may be a difference between telling a small lie when your unsaved then say committing murdere genez.

But you could lie to somebody so they can sell there soul to the devil deliberately.

Yep Let me guess eh genez. Thats just a sin, and that's not evil.

No probs genez you have it your way. 🙂
 
Seductive beautiful women can overwhelm a man. He may think it is love.
Well genez you make nice things out to bad and bad things out to be Good.

Seductiveness in a women with a beautiful gaze is about her is about her nature that may be attractive to one man but not another, and the innocent women really doesn't know just how seductive she is to the man
who falls in love with her , and the reason why many people fall in love,

It's like a beautiful story that draws you in, absolutely anything can be seductive and draw you in.

However if you want genez you can look at it the way you are and make it look like a woman selling herself. I guess this comes from your wonderful imagination of sin being ok, you always think of the best possibility,
 
1Samuel16-7.png

The Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16 v 7 Perverted men see things through the lens of their perversions.