Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

God predestined us BECAUSE He knew we would be saved.
Not, to save us.

If God wanted Moses to become the Bride of Christ?
God would have predestined for Moses to be alive during the Church age, so when he believed?
Moses would be a member of the body of Christ.

You're getting it straight, sir.

But you are not! God predestined those He [fore]KNEW in eternity. Plus God's will is not contingent on any of his creatures' wills.

Here's another newsflash for you: All the OT saints are the Bride of Christ along with the NT saints. God was always the Husband to the remnant of believing Israel. God doesn't have multiple peoples, that he saves with multiple gospels for multiple eschatological reasons.

 

[Rufus]

It's fun making believe I am a child again. Thanks!

So you finally admit that you are not one of God's "little children". Of course, you're not. How could you be? You're too self-important, self-sufficient, self-reliant and self-willed.

 

[Cameron143]

Why? You afraid I am competition for you?

What you really are is becoming more and more materialized the more you fabricate your answers.

I had you pegged instantly from the beginning.

You are not fooling anybody who is not fooled to begin with.

You are a goof with no discernment. I had you pegged from before the foundation of the world.

 

[Cameron143]

I thought you said they had to born again to understand? So they have to be born again and have open heart surgery and then what? They choose to believe or does God make them believe with His irresistible grace?

What do you think is happening when God opens the heart and enlightens the mind?

 

[Jordon]

It's fun making believe I am a child again. Thanks!

Your the best child here

 

[cv5]

I Grokked it. Please review and provide feedback.

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Here are the clearest verses in the Textus Receptus-based King James Bible (the Greek text underlying the KJV New Testament) that present the gospel/salvation as offered to all mankind without exception — the classic “universal gospel call” passages that stand in direct opposition to a strictly limited atonement or hyper-Calvinist “elect-only” offer.


I give the KJV English, the exact Greek phrase from the Textus Receptus, and the key grammatical construction that proves the offer is universal.

The Strongest Universal Offer Verses (Textus Receptus / KJV)

1. John 3:16 KJV: “For God so loved the world… that whosoever believeth in him should not perish…” Greek (TR): ὅτι οὕτως ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον … πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν → τὸν κόσμον = “the world” (kosmos in the broadest sense) → πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων = “every one believing / whosoever believes” (universal distributive)
2. John 1:29 KJV: “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Greek: ὁ αἴρων τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου → again τοῦ κόσμου (genitive of the whole kosmos)
3. John 4:42 KJV: “this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.” Greek: ὁ σωτὴρ τοῦ κόσμου
4. John 6:33 KJV: “For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” Greek: τῷ κόσμῳ ζωὴν δίδωσιν
5. John 6:51 KJV: “…and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Greek: ὑπὲρ τῆς τοῦ κόσμου ζωῆς δώσω
6. 1 John 2:2 (one of the strongest anti-limited-atonement verses) KJV: “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” Greek: περὶ ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου → ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου = literally “of the whole world” (no exceptions)
7. 1 Timothy 2:3-6 KJV: “…God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved… who gave himself a ransom for all…” Greek: πάντας ἀνθρώπους … ἀντίλυτρον ὑπὲρ πάντων → πάντας ἀνθρώπους and ὑπὲρ πάντων = “all men” / “for all” (no restricted category)
8. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV: “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” Greek: πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι
9. Acts 17:30 KJV: “…now commandeth all men every where to repent” Greek: πᾶσιν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πανταχοῦ μετανοεῖν
10. Romans 5:18 KJV: “…by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.” Greek: εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους εἰς δικαίωσιν ζωῆς
11. Titus 2:11 KJV: “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men” Greek: Πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις ἐπεφάνη ἡ χάρις τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡ σωτήριος
12. Revelation 22:17 KJV: “And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Greek: ὁ θέλων λαβέτω … δωρεάν (“whosoever is willing” — open invitation)
13. Isaiah 45:22 quoted in the NT spirit (though OT): “Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth.”

The Necessary Greek Constructions for a Genuine Universal Gospel Call

In the Textus Receptus, a truly universal offer (as opposed to a merely theoretical or elect-only one) almost always uses one or more of these grammatical markers:

1. κόσμος (kosmos) without any limiting genitive — especially in John’s writings (John 3:16; 1:29; 4:42; 6:33, 51; 1 John 2:2). When John wants to say “world of the elect” he never does; he always means mankind in general.
2. πᾶς / πάντες / ὅλος without restricting apposition
   • πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων (John 3:16)
   • πάντας ἀνθρώπους (1 Tim 2:4, 6; Titus 2:11)
   • ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου (1 John 2:2) These are distributive universals — “each and every,” not “all kinds of.”
3. ὑπὲρ + genitive of person with πᾶς or κόσμος (died “for” all / “for” the world) — John 6:51; 1 Tim 2:6; 2 Cor 5:14-15.
4. Indefinite relative pronouns — ὅστις, ὁ θέλων (“whosoever,” Rev 22:17; cf. John 3:15-16 in some TR manuscripts).
5. Second-person plural imperatives addressed to mixed crowds — “Repent ye” (Acts 2:38; 17:30), “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 16:31) given to unbelieving jailers, Gentile audiences, etc.

These constructions are impossible to reconcile with a strict “offer only to the elect” view unless one resorts to the “two wills” or “secret will” distinctions that many non-Calvinists (and even some moderate Calvinists) regard as special pleading.


So in the Textus Receptus KJV itself, the universal gospel call to every sinner without exception is not a rare doctrine — it is the dominant note sounded again and again.

 

[Jackson129]

That's my point. God is actually willing to let people perish.

Im not people are understanding the word willing correctly. Let's say I ask you to go to the store for everyone in the village. You say yes. That means you are willing to shop for all. Some of them tell you to kick rocks they will do it how they want. That dosent change the fact you were willing to go for them all. God willing no one would perish means he would save every last one of us. However some people tell God to kick rocks in some way shape or form. That dosent mean he is not willing to save them.

Gor some reason people think it means he wills them all into being saved which obviously isint true. Willing to do something is not the same thing as wills to to do something. People arnt even comparing the same word.

 

[Genez]

But you are not! God predestined those He [fore]KNEW in eternity. Plus God's will is not contingent on any of his creatures' wills.

Hey, hot shot. God does not run a mob like a mob boss.
Nor does he want talking points to replace Scriptural truths.

LOOK!

Out from all those whom God foreknew would believe?

​

He chose only certain ones for becoming his Son's bride!​

​

He then predestined those chosen ones to be living during the church age, to make it come to pass.​

There you have it!

Foreknew! - Chose! - Predestined! ​

All done without imposing on anyone's freedom to choose!

For Grace eradicated the tyranny of the fallen flesh over the soul....
And, in doing so?
Freed up their souls to make a choice without the flesh interfering.

Sorry to break it to you...
You are not great/smart/good enough to win the wise over to your lie.

Surrender to God, and stop trying to prove how superior you are to yourself.
Let God show you the superior way.

.......

 

[Jackson129]

Close but no cigar. God is not willing that any of Peter's original audience should perish since God's patience was toward them, not towards the entire world in the distributive sense.

Who do you think the bible speaks to today? The dead people from 70ad or the whole world who reads it. Peter was speaking to them, the scribes wrote it down, so the those words could be spoke to the whole world till the end of the age.

 

[Cameron143]

Im not people are understanding the word willing correctly. Let's say I ask you to go to the store for everyone in the village. You say yes. That means you are willing to shop for all. Some of them tell you to kick rocks they will do it how they want. That dosent change the fact you were willing to go for them all. God willing no one would perish means he would save every last one of us. However some people tell God to kick rocks in some way shape or form. That dosent mean he is not willing to save them.

Gor some reason people think it means he wills them all into being saved which obviously isint true. Willing to do something is not the same thing as wills to to do something. People arnt even comparing the same word.

I didn't say He wasn't willing to save anyone. I said He is willing to allow people to perish. And that the verse doesn't actually teach what many claim.

 

[Genez]

So you finally admit that you are not one of God's "little children". Of course, you're not. How could you be? You're too self-important, self-sufficient, self-reliant and self-willed.

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. ​

In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking ​

be adults." 1 Corinthians 14:20​

As far as...

You're too self-important, self-sufficient, self-reliant and self-willed.

You really do not realize that you are those Things?
Projection remains truly a mystery for those who use it.

You would not believe how many things I have been accused of doing over the years, by those who did the very same things they accused me of.

I suppose it is an occupational hazard...

Eat your heart out.
Or, repent.

 

[Jackson129]

I didn't say He wasn't willing to save anyone. I said He is willing to allow people to perish. And that the verse doesn't actually teach what many claim.

I know that's why i adressed it as people. I have a few Grammer errors as im trying to type with a broken thumb on a phone lol

 

[sawdust]

What do you think is happening when God opens the heart and enlightens the mind?

I see, answering a question with a question hey?! Typical and next you'll be complaining "you didn't answer my question, sob".

I'm asking you Cameron, stop deflecting.

 

[Jordon]

Hey, hot shot. God does not run a mob like a mob boss.
Nor does he want talking points to replace Scriptural truths.

LOOK!

Out from all those whom God foreknew would believe?

​

He chose only certain ones for becoming his Son's bride!​

​

He then predestined those chosen ones to be living during the church age, to make it come to pass.​

There you have it!

Foreknew! - Chose! - Predestined! ​

All done without imposing on anyone's freedom to choose!

For Grace eradicated the tyranny of the fallen flesh over the soul....
And, in doing so?
Freed up their souls to make a choice without the flesh interfering.

Sorry to break it to you...
You are not great/smart/good enough to win the wise over to your lie.

Surrender to God, and stop trying to prove how superior you are to yourself.
Let God show you the superior way.

.......

your not sorry for anything

I actually feel embarrassed talking with you.

I just read your post and I just know one thing only, they generally are going to say I'm it and I am before I've finished reading them

And they do always

 

[Magenta]

I know that's why i adressed it as people. I have a few Grammer errors as im trying to type with a broken thumb on a phone lol

Why type when you can use a mic?

 

[Genez]

your not sorry for anything

I actually feel embarrassed talking with you.

I just read your post and I just know one thing only, they generally are going to say I'm it and I am before I've finished reading them

And they do always

Have you ever tried possessing a body other than Jordon's?

 

[Jackson129]

Why type when you can use a mic?

Spell check is worse on talk to text if you ask me

 

[Cameron143]

I know that's why i adressed it as people. I have a few Grammer errors as im trying to type with a broken thumb on a phone lol

You're doing great.

 

[Cameron143]

I see, answering a question with a question hey?! Typical and next you'll be complaining "you didn't answer my question, sob".

I'm asking you Cameron, stop deflecting.

When the heart is opened and the mind is enlightened, that is regeneration. I see you are in troll mode too.

 

[Jackson129]

You're doing great.

Says the guy with 2 working thumbs