no I'm not a person who gets into people's heads like you or tries to be somebody there not like you.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Calvinists fail to rightly comprehend either of these.
Garbage in garbage out.
no I'm not a person who gets into people's heads like you or tries to be somebody there not like you.
Fare thee well ....
When the heart is opened and the mind is enlighted wouldn't that cause regeneration? No be regeneration?
As is the WILL of those who perish.
You see @Rufus when we WILL to do His WILL, our spirit agrees with God's Spirit,
THEN come the blessings and fellowship and eternal life.
When our spirit denies/resists/insults/blasphemes God's spirit,
THEN come the judgements and cursing's and separation.
And much to the dismay of @Magenta , all men born into the world have a spirit as an aspect of their created existence.
[Rom 8:16 KJV]
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[Gal 6:18 KJV]
Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with your spirit. Amen.
[1Th 5:23 KJV]
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[Phm 1:25 KJV]
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with your spirit. Amen.
I'm not strident on an exact understanding, but salvation occurs when God draws nigh an individual and works in them. It does seem natural, however, that life is necessary for understanding.
He's not willing them to perish, but he is allowing it. There's a difference.
According to John Calvin, yes, but not according to scripture. Btw, sovereignty is nowhere found in scripture.
I believe you are creating a rigid rule where none exists. I am pretty sure there are plenty of testimonies of ex-Calvinists who simply saw the light on the falsehood of Calvinism just by looking at the many verses in the Bible that we are discussing in this thread. I don’t believe all ex-Calvinists had to revisit the first day they accepted their first error involving Calvinism in order to break free from its deceptive stronghold.
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So you believe the Elect can fall away after being unconditionally saved or chosen by God?
If so, you don't believe in traditional Calvinism.
If so, then your belief is not consistent with the whole of Scripture.
If so, then your belief is not consistent with the false system of Calvinism.
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So the Elect were in danger of perishing?
I thought that God had foreknowledge of His own Elect.
Why would God place His own Elect as potentially perishing if He knew He was going to choose them to be saved for all eternity?
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C. H. Spurgeon's
Evening Reading
(November 25th)
In these words the Lord in the plainest manner claims the right to give or to withhold His mercy according to His own sovereign will. As the prerogative of life and death is vested in the monarch, so the Judge of all the earth has a right to spare or condemn the guilty, as may seem best in His sight. Men by their sins have forfeited all claim upon God; they deserve to perish for their sins-and if they all do so, they have no ground for complaint. If the Lord steps in to save any, He may do so if the ends of justice are not thwarted; but if He judges it best to leave the condemned to suffer the righteous sentence, none may arraign Him at their bar. Foolish and impudent are all those discourses about the rights of men to be all placed on the same footing; ignorant, if not worse, are those contentions against discriminating grace, which are but the rebellions of proud human nature against the crown and sceptre of Jehovah. When we are brought to see our own utter ruin and ill desert, and the justice of the divine verdict against sin, we no longer cavil at the truth that the Lord is not bound to save us; we do not murmur if He chooses to save others, as though He were doing us an injury, but feel that if He deigns to look upon us, it will be His own free act of undeserved goodness, for which we shall for ever bless His name.
How shall those who are the subjects of divine election sufficiently adore the grace of God? They have no room for boasting, for sovereignty most effectually excludes it. The Lord's will alone is glorified, and the very notion of human merit is cast out to everlasting contempt. There is no more humbling doctrine in Scripture than that of election, none more promotive of gratitude, and, consequently, none more sanctifying. Believers should not be afraid of it, but adoringly rejoice in it.
Evening Reading
(November 25th)
"For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." — Romans 9:15
In these words the Lord in the plainest manner claims the right to give or to withhold His mercy according to His own sovereign will. As the prerogative of life and death is vested in the monarch, so the Judge of all the earth has a right to spare or condemn the guilty, as may seem best in His sight. Men by their sins have forfeited all claim upon God; they deserve to perish for their sins-and if they all do so, they have no ground for complaint. If the Lord steps in to save any, He may do so if the ends of justice are not thwarted; but if He judges it best to leave the condemned to suffer the righteous sentence, none may arraign Him at their bar. Foolish and impudent are all those discourses about the rights of men to be all placed on the same footing; ignorant, if not worse, are those contentions against discriminating grace, which are but the rebellions of proud human nature against the crown and sceptre of Jehovah. When we are brought to see our own utter ruin and ill desert, and the justice of the divine verdict against sin, we no longer cavil at the truth that the Lord is not bound to save us; we do not murmur if He chooses to save others, as though He were doing us an injury, but feel that if He deigns to look upon us, it will be His own free act of undeserved goodness, for which we shall for ever bless His name.
How shall those who are the subjects of divine election sufficiently adore the grace of God? They have no room for boasting, for sovereignty most effectually excludes it. The Lord's will alone is glorified, and the very notion of human merit is cast out to everlasting contempt. There is no more humbling doctrine in Scripture than that of election, none more promotive of gratitude, and, consequently, none more sanctifying. Believers should not be afraid of it, but adoringly rejoice in it.
But his ACTIVE decision was to let the sins take place instead of preventing them.
The elect are only in danger if they ignore the perseverance warnings in scriptures. The true saints will always persevere because of God's preserving grace. (Have you ever noticed the multiple calls to persevere in the Book of Hebrews?)
As far as your second question is concerned: The LESS-THAN-IDEAl moral/spiritual conditions here on earth are strictly temporary. In the ideal, sinless, perfect, eternal New Order, no one will have to worry about persevering in the faith because faith will give way to sight. Meanwhile, though, both God and his saints will have have work through salvation in this very messy, sinful world.
Proving once again that you're very like not a child of God. All helpless, foolish, immature children have had their precious little wills imposed upon by loving parents. Are the parents monsters or fascists or dictators? And it's God prerogative (divine right) to save everyone, no one or just many. God gives his grace to the humble in Christ in eternity.
Look man, God created His creatures with FREE WILL.
Factoring in the obvious resolves/solves/quashes every supposed Calvinist paradox, barrier, impossibility and conflict there ever was or ever will be.
I never said He was willing them to perish, but He is willing to let them perish. The verse may show God's desire for man, but it doesn't mean He isn't willing that they not perish.