Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Why do you, who who apparently hates sound doctrine, want to know so much?

Sounds like some Calvinists are suffering hardship because nobody else wants to play "hide the Biblically correct doctrine".

Pity that.....

 

[Rufus]

There are not many "stupid' calvies. The system is geared towards intellectualism.

A "smarter than thou" attitude is recommended in the calvie theory.

Since you're so humble and maybe not-so-smart (?), I have a question for you and for the rest of your sovereign freewill comrades. Please explain to me how God is not morally culpable for the brutal murder of his only Begotten Son per the teaching in Act 4:27-28.

 

[Magenta]

The LORD of Hosts has sworn: “Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand.” Isaiah 14 verse 24 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations. Psalm 33 verse 11 Our God is in heaven; He does as He pleases. Psalm 115 verse 3 Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. Proverbs 19 verse 21 In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 55 v 10-11 Just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it.

 

[Me_Clay]

If the soul wasn't corrupted by sin, the flesh would influence the soul. Because both body and soul were corrupted, the soul influenced the flesh.[/QUOTE

 

[Magenta]

Romans 8 v 5 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

 

[Jordon]

Sounds like some Calvinists are suffering hardship because nobody else wants to play "hide the Biblically correct doctrine".

Pity that.....

Sounds like your still being abrupt.

The word of God says to protect innocence, and on more than hundreds occasion people have told you there not what you think they are.

But yet you and your lack of respect for innocence doesn't care, and repeat the same offense over and over again,

Which makes you nothing more than disrespectful toe rag who can't toe the line

 

[Magenta]

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Me_Clay]

Dear Cameron 143

Have you read about the doctrine of regeneration?

I don't think our soul influenced our flesh.

Kind regards
Clay

 

[Magenta]

Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)

 

[Cameron143]

Dear Cameron 143

Have you read about the doctrine of regeneration?

I don't think our soul influenced our flesh.

Kind regards
Clay

What constitutes the soul?

 

[Rufus]

When scripture doesn't suffice, many employ an emotional and hypothetical appeal.

How true! And with only one highly usual exception, I emphasize their need and tell them that Christ died for all those who believe in Him. Only one time in my life when witnessing to a close friend of mine, who is also sharp as a tack, did I ever share the Gospel and EXPLAIN it within the framework of the Five Doctrines of Grace. And what blew me totally away that particular evening, while having dinner together, he told me that what I just explained made good sense to him! This guy got it. (I knew right then and there that God was working in my friend's life!) That happened a good 4 years or so ago, but he came to the Lord only a little over a year ago and I witnessed his baptism at my former church! So, God had been working in this man's life for years -- just as the Lord had worked in mine for a long time before He saved me.

 

[Magenta]

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14

 

[Rufus]

“This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves” — Irenaeus

“If any one is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice.” — Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35AD – 107AD)

“There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner to life, because you are a free man.” — Melito of Sardis, c. 170AD

“And do not wonder that a man may become an imitator of God. He can, if he is willing.” — Mathetes (2nd century)

“It is therefore in the power of every one, since man has been made possessed of free-will, whether he shall hear us to life, or the demons to destruction.” — Shepherd of Hermas (c. 130–140 AD)

“Just as with men, who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice, so it is among the angels…Some free agents, you will observe, such as they were created by God, continued in those things for which God had made and over which he had ordained them; but some outraged both the constitution of their nature and the government entrusted to them.” — Athenagoras of Athens (c. 133–190 AD)

If, on the other hand, he would turn to the things of death, disobeying God, he would himself be the cause of death to himself. For God made man free, and with power of himself.” — Theophilus of Antioch (died c. 185 AD)

We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.” — Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215 AD)

“I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and power… Man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance.” — Tertullian (c. 160–225 AD)

“This is also clearly defined in the teaching of the church, that every rational soul has free will and volition….we are not forced by any necessity to act either rightly or wrongly.” — Origen of Alexandria (c. 185–254 AD)

“The liberty of believing or not believing is placed in free choice. In Deuteronomy, it says, ‘Look! I have set before your face life and death, good and evil. Choose for yourself life, that you may live.’” — Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD)

When he had given man all things for his service, he willed that man alone should be free. And lest an unbounded freedom would lead man into peril, He had laid down a command.” — Novatian (c. 200–258 AD)

“All the creatures that God made, He made very good. And He gave to every individual the sense of free will, by which standard He also instituted the law of judgment…. And certainly whoever will, may keep the commandments.” — Archelaus (3rd century)

“Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils.” — Methodius (c. 260–312 AD)

“Every rational soul has naturally a good free-will, formed for the choice of what is good. But when a man acts wrongly, nature is not to be blamed; for what is wrong, takes place not according to nature, but contrary to nature.” — Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 263–339 AD)

“Does He not free all alike who invites all alike? Or does He thrust back or repel any one from the kindness of the supreme, who gives to all alike the power of coming to Him.” — Arnobius (c. 297–303 AD)

Brian Wagner: “There seems to have been no exceptions among early Christian writers to the orthodox teaching that man has been granted by God a free will to choose his destiny, and that salvation is available to all. The opposing view, that man is controlled by fate, could only be found in the Greek philosophical schools, Gnosticism, and Eastern mysticism during the first 300 years of Christianity. It is no wonder that the man who introduced Greek fatalism into Christianity should come from a Gnostic and Neo-Platonic background. Augustine’s theory differed from the Greek philosophers mainly by naming the CAUSE of fate — God’s mysterious will which must not be questioned, and cannot be understood by mortals. The impact of Augustine’s teaching probably would not have been nearly so great if Pelagius had not gone to the opposite extreme in renouncing Augustine.”

“You [Augustine] make God the author of our sins by asserting that He predestines some to salvation and others to damnation, as if human will has no role in its own choices. This is nothing but Manichaean determinism dressed in Christian garb.” — Julian of Eclanum (421AD)

“God’s grace indeed cooperates with our will, but it does not compel it. For if all is determined by divine predestination, why do we exhort men to strive for virtue, or why does Scripture command us to choose life? The human will must begin, and God completes.” — John Cassian (c. 425–429 AD)

“God invites all to salvation, and His grace is offered universally. The human will… retains the power to accept or reject” — De Gratia (c. 470–475 AD)

“The fact that they all agreed seems very credible, and their consensus could not be more clear: mankind has always had the free will to choose God…”

You might want to study and meditate on the Parable of the Banguet in Lk 14 that outright contradicts what I bolded above.

 

[Rufus]

Tell it to the judge. You all were caught red handed.

Mary has a such a high view of her sovereignty and freewill that she called God her Savior. Detect any humility there?

 

[Rufus]

If for once you actually made any sense I might be able to make a clear answer but you don't.

You can't answer the question even when the answer is in the verse I gave you.

Emotion is a function of the soul, not the body. The body expresses the pain we feel (ie through tears etc) it does not have it's source there. The bodies in hell will be burned to ash so no nerve endings, no physical pain only emotional pain of the soul.

I said the mind is in the soul in the very post you quoted but you make nonsense responses like "if the soul has no mind", something I have never even remotely intimated is true.

The soul is who we are, all we think and value and desire.

You seem to get very confused between the function of the physical body and the function of the immaterial soul.



What you showed made no sense. There is nothing about any "seed" in the verse.

I want to make things fit? You bet. Fit what the scriptures are actually saying not some mumbo jumbo ranting.

Have a nice day.

You couldn't be more wrong! The HEART of man is the control center of his personhood; for within that heart is seated all four of man's faculties.

 

[Me_Clay]

What constitutes the soul?

 

[Rufus]

This @Cameron143 fellow sees fit to compartmentalize the Scriptures, defying the very purpose of the Book.
However, the truth is that there are no divisions, the Scriptures are a complete and harmonious whole.

And for some reason, many of these Calvinists enjoy playing the part of "Inquisitor" (of the Spanish sort), proffering inane questions in an attempt to stifle and obscure Biblical truth.

You mean like Jesus did with all the "inane questions" he asked people?

 

[Magenta]

Mary has a such a high view of her sovereignty and freewill that she called God her Savior. Detect any humility there?

We still have that God blasphemer refusing to acknowledge what Scripture actually says of Mary.

The vile things that come out of his wicked imagination surely defile him. All due to his idol of free will.

From Luke 1 v 46-55 “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior! For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me. Holy is His name. His mercy extends to those who fear Him, from generation to generation. He has performed mighty deeds with His arm; He has scattered those who are proud in the thoughts of their hearts. He has brought down rulers from their thrones, but has exalted the humble. He has filled the hungry with good things, but has sent the rich away empty. He has helped His servant Israel, remembering to be merciful, as He promised to our fathers, to Abraham and his descendants forever.” Mary was not asked; she was informed (see Luke 1 v 26-38).

 

[Rufus]

Try telling that to Balaam!
Num 23:12 12 So he [Balaam] answered and said, “Must I not take heed to speak what the Lord has put in my mouth?”

Proving that man's ways are NOT in himself as scripture teaches. Abimelech, Pharaoh, Joseph, Ishmael, Issac, Jacob, Esau, Job, Judas, Jewish and Gentile leaders in Jesus' day, etc. are other great examples of God's disregard for man's [mythical] sovereignty. God didn't even ask for their permission.