before I engage in discussion concerning abiding in the Vine, I would like an answer to the last question:
Can unbelievers abide in the Vine?
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Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
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Can unbelievers abide in the Vine?
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yep I realise you will not see the distinction of God going against your will to stop you from equipping yourself with sin.
It's ok I understand the struggles of the flesh
One day maybe you will
Neither can anyone with spurious faith remain in the vine. Apostate Israel is a great example.
Not sure why the mystery card helps you here.
Why don't you just us what you actually believe?
Why not help and clarify what you mean?
Is it maybe because you may not be correct?
Are you saying that traditional Calvinism teaches that there is a choice when it comes to choosing God?
If so, that would be incorrect to what even classic Calvinism teaches.
.....
There's no mystery here. You need to be correct for your beliefs to hold. If you're wrong they don't. So of course you need to be correct. I get it, but following what scripture says would be so much easier.
As for my beliefs, they've been clearly stated multiple times. God's chosen are made spiritually alive, their faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, they believe (a choice) and are given eternal life.
How does God do that?
Use cutting words?
You say only words you read in the Bible and know not what you speak about.
what you "realise" is a figment of your own vain imagination due to your inability to engage in meaningful discussion concerning issues about which you are Scripturally ignorant.
do you?Jordon said:
when was the last time you struggled with your flesh?
Apparently, pride is not one of the areas of the flesh with which you struggle [/sarc]Jordon said:
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The Pharisees wrote a written request for the Lord to apologize for his insults.
And, those Paul had written about and had put in their place, wrote a similar letter demanding that he not insult them...
And, there is a small sect that meets in a forum who demand they be treated with the highest regard, yet make God into a monster with TULIP.
Here is my response to you demand as given by my defense attorney:
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Proverbs 12:1
With the exception of the Rapture generation?
We are all going to die.
I wish it were not true.
But, looks like only then you will begin to understand how you keep getting in the way of yourself.
.......
Pride is a mental attitude sin.
It is not tangible to those whom The Holy Spirit can not prick.
Pride in flesh before the fall, is something that leads everyone to reject God's will.
And in the naturally wicked heart with the vain imagination, the heart is unable an uncooperative to recognise that it should be living according to God's word.
As God declared the will of flesh is the will man and holds it's will above God.
It's unable to judge it's own actions before it's to late. So God once again goes against will of the flesh and write his laws in his children in his new heart of flesh he gives them his new heart not theres, again going against the current state of there will
But God can also judge the naturally wicked heart as scriptures declare every careless word the naturally wicked heart speaks will be heid accountable.
So there for when God says his active word judges the heart and motives, this Also means his active goad in a person is judging there motives and pricking there conscience at the same time.
also his active will is going against the will of the flesh in order that the person becomes responsible for his actions and words.
God put his living fear of wickedness in the naturally wicked heart and they tremble with fear in many ways, one way they tremble is when God is giving them his commands.
Another way they tremble with fear is when they start disobeying God.
Again this is all done to save a person and it is by the active fear of the lord in the unsaved that they come to know him.
The fear of the lord is to know the lord in the unsaved.
The active fear of wickedness the lord has and plants in the unsaved is also enough for them to work out there salvation in fear and trembling,
Again done to save them discipline them as they can not discipline them them self without his active will.
Neither can they hear neither will they listen neither are there eyes opened.
His active will is also shown in the scriptures that declare the wages for sin is death since you're made alive in Christ even tho you still have a sin nature, this rule applies to the unsaved
This means the naturally wicked heart is under the the active will of death until God frees them from his active will.
This also means that until they are free because there under the active will of death there an easy target for satan to have power over them.
Because there the active will of death was applied to all mankind fallen nature.
As scripture declares the will of the flesh is the will of man.
So the nature of flesh is passed in from parent to sibling
Which means the active will of death and God's judgement is active in all mankind untill he frees them.
And until they obey him.
Yes. But only if it is good and right.
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[2Pe 2:1 KJV]
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
[2Pe 2:2 KJV]
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[2Pe 2:3 KJV]
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
I said:
I guess you didn't read what I said.
I wasn't talking about what the sin nature produces, you said the "desires of the sin nature" but the sin nature does not have desires it is "another law" Rom.7:23, but one not from God, working in the flesh just as digestion is a law working in the flesh. It has no desires of it's own, it simply reacts.
So it looks like I did not say you said sin had desires.
Who needs to learn to read?
Not every heart is evil, but every heart is under the bondage of the sin nature which, is why grace must do it's work on the flesh in order to let the heart be free to choose for itself. It's because you don't understand the sin nature properly (what and where it is and how it works) you attribute evil to every heart at birth without realising you are accusing God of creating men evil. Only God can create the soul, our parents only created our flesh. The heart is a function of the soul. All souls are created by God knowing neither good nor evil, they are neutral. The Lord has never forsaken this world and has worked within it continually to draw all men to salvation. Some have no desire for good whatsoever and end up lost forever. Others desire good but are unable to do it because the sin nature keeps them bound to the impulses of the flesh and it deceives the mind. The people live in darkness, it doesn't necessarily mean they become darkness, for the Lord shines His light into this world and the dark cannot overcome it. They are drawn to that light, not knowing who or why the light shines, only knowing they prefer it to the dark.
And my heart is not dark. It may be darkened in some places still but that is why I continue to study and learn and not rest on my own understanding but rely on the Lord to show me my ignorance and correct my errors.