Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

It is not a one shot deal. There is pre-salvation grace. And, post salvation grace.

Pre-salvation grace must be commissioned by God to get an unregenerated soul into a position to be made able to believe.
God does the initiation in that case.

But, look at King Saul.
He started off humble.
Later, became insanely proud and died the sin onto death.

Why the sin onto death?

Saul after regeneration was responsible for humbling himself before God.
Saul refused, and died a horrific death.

Seems to be the case yes.

 

[Cameron143]

God gives Grace to the humble.

How did the proud, arrogant and God hating natural man get this Grace?

I told you...God. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights. If God's grace was limited to the humble, there would be no humble.

 

[sawdust]

He didn't. God did.

but that was after he was saved. According to the quote he received grace after he humbled himself.

 

[cv5]

Warning, all FWers should stop at this point and read no further!

I Found a lot of truth in these words:

The apple does not produce itself, it does not sustain its own existence; it contributes nothing to its becoming an apple, being an apple or remaining an apple, for it is a product. The apple remains an apple only by that which was given to it by the tree. The apple is not an apple because of what it is, but because of what it was made to be. It was the tree, and not the apple that determined what it would be, for an apple tree never produces oranges. The apple is a product of something else over which it has no control. Something else brings it into being and sustains its life. The apple simply gets a ‘free ride’. An apple is something that something else has produced. To say the apple contributed in some way to its being an apple, or remaining an apple, is to only reveal one’s lunacy. It is to say that an apple can choose what it wants to be, or that a dog can choose what it wants to be. The dog, the apple or the saved man HAD NO CHOICE as to what they would be, AT ALL! Dogs are created, apples are created and the saved man is created a new creature in Christ by God according to the will of God. Nothing, and no one has any say in what they were created to be, nor do they remain what they are because of what they are, but only by what they were predetermined and created to be. The apple is solely a product of the tree from which it hangs. The apple has no right to receive any glory for its existence, for it is solely a product of that which deserves all the glory, the tree. So too, a Christian, a born again new creature created in Christ Jesus receives no glory for what he is, for all the glory is rightly and solely due to the One Who created and sustains him: Almighty God.

**MDB**

That the basic level of Reformed discourse right there. Tinker toy kindergarten pablum.

Embarrassing.

 

[sawdust]

Behavior is doctrine in action. Peter also admitted that some of what Paul said was difficult to understand. Doesn't sound like someone who understands all truth.

It still has nothing to do with Paul's rebuke of Peter not knowing the truth. Stop hedging and face reality. Peter's correction came because he did know the truth.

 

[Cameron143]

Why is only applicable to you, and not also the Christian opposing your stand?

I never said it wasn't available to any Christian.

 

[Rufus]

That is a non-answer.
So you were never a sinner in need of salvation? You were not an enemy?

You were never a natural man in this world?

Of course you were at one point in time. How did you humble that natural man to receive His Grace?

Or

You have always been righteous, holy and good.

It's not a non-answer. It's only sound theological and logical answer. God had to first give me grace in order to experience its power in my life. Therefore, the gift of that perfect Grace came to be on the basis of Jesus' Federal Headship, since I (along with all the other elect) was in Christ before time began. Once God's grace effectually and experientially started working in my soul and heart in temporal reality, then I began the transformation process during regeneration since that grace was the fulfillment of God's unilateral New Covenant promises.

 

[sawdust]

I'm almost embarrassed having to repeatedly post these verses but for some reason, for those who believe as you do,
they keep getting overlooked. So, here they are again. True belief occurs within someone only by/from/as God's gift to them.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[Phl 1:29 KJV] 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And I'm almost embarrassed what I said went completely over your head. Maybe you're just short.

 

[Kroogz]

That's a lie. I never said that!

Ok. I apologize.

Were you humble or proud when you received Grace?

 

[Rufus]

It still has nothing to do with Paul's rebuke of Peter not knowing the truth. Stop hedging and face reality. Peter's correction came because he did know the truth.

But he didn't remember what he knew, did he!? If he hadn't forgotten, he would not have been in need of correction, would he?

 

[Rufus]

Ok. I apologize.

Were you humble or proud when you received Grace?

Both! Now go back and read my explanations with the intention of trying to understand what I wrote.

 

[Genez]

I told you...God. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights. If God's grace was limited to the humble, there would be no humble.

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. ​

​

1 Pet 5:6​

 

[Cameron143]

It still has nothing to do with Paul's rebuke of Peter not knowing the truth. Stop hedging and face reality. Peter's correction came because he did know the truth.

Your original assertion was that Peter knew all truth. He admitted he didn't. He behaved like he didn't. No teacher has everything right.

 

[BillyBob]

Quaint. But NONE of you understand nor have an answer to the fact that Matt 20 (linked also to the Gibeonites) quashes every Reformed dogma there ever was. It's obvious.....if you aren't wearing Reformed blinders.

You must be speaking in tongues again, because I have no idea what you are talking about.
But since @Kroogz agreed with what was posted, perhaps he/she is the interpreter and can better explain your gibberish.

 

[Cameron143]

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. ​

​

1 Pet 5:6​

Sure, Christians are always to be humble before God. Part of the invitation of Jesus...learn of me for I am meek and lowly in heart...

 

[Rufus]

I told you...God. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights. If God's grace was limited to the humble, there would be no humble.

Not true! All grace comes through the merits of the elect's Federal Head, who was the ultimate example of humility.

 

[rogerg]

And I'm almost embarrassed what I said went completely over your head. Maybe you're just short.

How can nothing go over someone's head - but that demonstrates you're short in biblical comprehension

 

[Cameron143]

Not true! All grace comes through the merits of the elect's Federal Head, who was the ultimate example of humility.

How then is God gracious by allowing the sun to shine on the just and the unjust? How can the psalmist say God is merciful to all?

 

[Kroogz]

Both!

Thanks.

 

[brightfame52]

How then is God gracious by allowing the sun to shine on the just and the unjust?

Thats not Grace, that's common providence and God taking care of His creation, He is still going to dam the vessels of wrath, non elect whom He hates Ps 5:5-6

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Notice the writer doesnt say thou hatest iniquity, though that is true, but He hateth the workers of it, the very person