Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

I have never denied that one of the four faculties ALL men possess w/o exception is volition -- albeit a will that is seated in the wicked, corrupt and evil hearts of humanity.

And, yes, I did "feel the power" of God when I believed. I was literally overwhelmed by the presence of the Holy Spirit within me, as I sat in my car crying uncontrollably for several minutes over my utter sinfulness against an infinitely holy God. Looking back at that watershed moment in my life, I can now see that God graciously planted the fear of Himself in my heart that moved me to pray to him, ask his forgiveness, and to save me. I knew back then as I still do today that ultimately by His doing, I'm in Christ Jesus. Did I make a decision to trust in Him and to repent? Of course, I did! But it wasn't by any innate power of my own that I did that!

praise God Rufus!!!
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[Cameron143]

So when Magenta posted what she posted (and continues to post) concerning fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, she is not saying they are not born again? ... is this true @Magenta???





I believe we are both in agreement that the criteria for salvation is belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ.





so rolleyes and smh do not offend ... huh ... like I said, so many rules/regulations to follow [quote the whole post ... if you're not responding to the whole post, point that out ... rolleyes/smh offend ... rolleyes/smh don't offend, etc., etc., ad naseum] ...

now I'm smh because apparently the only rules folks do not have to follow are the ones wherein God tells us how we are to behave toward our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ ...

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous
.

Don't know what @Magenta meant.

Rules aren't burdensome for those who enjoy loving others more than themselves. No commandments are...1 John 5:3.

 

[lrs68]

Do you find rest in Jesus, when you come to Jesus for rest do you find peace,

I did and still do to this very minute

Do you then knowingly know the change when you evaluate those feelings.

I know the difference between feeling excited about something compared to the presence of God moving in my life

And as you come to know the rest the lords gives do you then knowingly believe out of choice, or it it something you know.

Now after walking with God for 50+ years it's something I know very well

Could people use that knowing change also for other reasons and could that knowing change happen for other reasons,

Depends how old a person is when they accept God as their Savior and Lord

Could there be other knowing changes you've experienced.

Everything experienced is something we know about concerning the conditions of it changing for one reason or another.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you find rest in Jesus, when you come to Jesus for rest do you find peace,
Do you then knowingly know the change when you evaluate those feelings.
And as you come to know the rest the lords gives do you then knowingly believe out of choice, or it it something you know.

Could people use that knowing change also for other reasons and could that knowing change happen for other reasons,

Could there be other knowing changes you've experienced

Jordon ... the peace Jesus brings to our hearts is beyond our comprehension to understand:

Philippians 4:6-9 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

This is such a magnificent blessing from God ... we can be in the midst of extreme turmoil and still have God's peace in our hearts because we trust in Him to bring us through every situation in this life. God is greater than anything we will face in this life.
.

 

[Genez]

A kidnapping by definition is not resistible. And it always is a criminal enterprise.

Grace by definition is always resistable.
And it is always a righteous enterprise.

Act 7:51 - “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

Yes.... But they claim uses irresistible grace to save us.

But? ..... TULIP -

TULIP is an acronym summarizing the five points of Calvinism, a theological system emphasizing God's sovereignty in salvation. The points are: Total Depravity (humans are inherently sinful and unable to choose God), Unconditional Election (God chooses who will be saved), Limited Atonement (Christ died for the sins of the elect), Irresistible Grace (God's saving grace cannot be rejected by the elect).

 

[Jordon]

Yes, we did and do feel the Power and Presence of God when we first begin to believe. That is affirmation for us and our confidence in God.

Kinda but do you back to that place enough, do you go back to the place of presence , a private time, that place of affirmation, where do you go,

Is his affirmation set in your faith like a diamond that will shine forever.
Has the father changed you to the point where you know you have to do the right thing Because God is real.

Do you do things just to please God. Or do you do things just to please people

Have you felt his warmth when doing one of his wishes,

Have you felt his strength when you are weak

Have you felt his warmth when you've done an act of his work for him for anyone you know,

Have you seeked the lord to do his work.

 

[NightTwister]

Actually, yes, you do.
In fact you chant this mantra incessantly.

Saved by force and fraud (definitely NOT by volitional faith/believing). This is the message and these are the salvific principles proffered by the determinists.

You lie and you redefine terms when your argument fails. Very un-Christian-like.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Don't know what @Magenta meant.

Do you believe HeIsHere is born again?

That was who you and Magenta were referring to when the comment was made "How would a FWer know? They don't understand the gospel message since it includes much they reject, deny, and contradict" ... which was heart hearted by you.

Rules aren't burdensome for those who enjoy loving others more than themselves.

maybe the "rules" suggested by "some" are due to "some" who do not enjoy loving others more than themselves ... just sayin'

No commandments are...1 John 5:3.

The commandments of God are not grievous ... big difference between the commandments of God and the "rules" of men.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
.

 

[NightTwister]

I didn't say anyone made that claim. I made that post because criminals always use the excuse someone made me do it.

You lie and you redefine terms when your argument fails. Very un-Christian-like.

 

[Jordon]

Jordon ... the peace Jesus brings to our hearts is beyond our comprehension to understand:

Philippians 4:6-9 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

This is such a magnificent blessing from God ... we can be in the midst of extreme turmoil and still have God's peace in our hearts because we trust in Him to bring us through every situation in this life. God is greater than anything we will face in this life.
.

and now it is no longer out of our comprehension,

And comprehension also applies to being kind to Calvinists

 

[Jordon]

I did and still do to this very minute

I know the difference between feeling excited about something compared to the presence of God moving in my life

Now after walking with God for 50+ years it's something I know very well

Depends how old a person is when they accept God as their Savior and Lord

Everything experienced is something we know about concerning the conditions of it changing for one reason or another.

and so is all of this is how you know to believe.

Or do you still believe it out of choice

 

[reneweddaybyday]

and now it is no longer out of our comprehension,

yes it is beyond our comprehension according to Phil 4:7. The peace of God is something we experience internally even though are unable to understand it. As we turn to God and bring everything to Him in prayer and supplication with thanksgiving ... He takes our anxiety from us and envelops us in His peace.

And comprehension also applies to being kind to Calvinists

yes, of course. and if you go through posts submitted by me, please note I have not referred to anyone as "calvinist" or "super determinist" or "FWer" or "freewiller". I refer to people by their moniker.
.

 

[cv5]

No, I did not believe "in the EVIDENCE".

So lets get this straight:
You did not seek, knock, ask.
You did not repent.
You did not believe.
You did not enter the narrow gate.
You did not eat His flesh and drink His blood.
You did not drink the cup.
You did not enter the covenant.

Because none of these things are remotely possible for you nor for anyone else.

So God had no other choice and forced you to believe contrary to your own express will/desire/choices, which are always utterly depraved.

Do I have that right?
I mean we already did a similar Calvinist doctrinal checklist earlier, and all of the determinists concurred.
So I merely expanded upon it.

 

[cv5]

I didn't say anyone made that claim. I made that post because criminals always use the excuse someone made me do it.

You are getting warm......
Satan the arch criminal says precisely the same thing about his own transgressions.

 

[Jordon]

yes it is beyond our comprehension according to Phil 4:7. The peace of God is something we experience internally even though are unable to understand it. As we turn to God and bring everything to Him in prayer and supplication with thanksgiving ... He takes our anxiety from us and envelops us in His peace.





yes, of course. and if you go through posts submitted by me, please note I have not referred to anyone as "calvinist" or "super determinist" or "FWer" or "freewiller". I refer to people by their moniker.
.

had to look that meaning up then moniker, ok good, pleased it hear it.

But God the peace of God that the surpasses all understanding does that apply to surpassing your understanding of him.

God surpases all feelings of unrest in the case of knowing God is giving you comfort

Am I to believe I can't understand an comprehend God is giving me comfort

 

[Genez]

That's grace. You don't have to deserve it or ask.

Grace is never rude and dominating....

 

[cv5]

Grace is never rude and dominating....

Agree. Christ is the ultimate Gentleman, impeccable in manners at all times.
Waiting for determinists' heads to explode in 3.....2......1......

 

[Jordon]

Agree. Christ is the ultimate Gentleman, impeccable in manners at all times.
Waiting for determinists' heads to explode in 3.....2......1......

well actually I have a nuke in my head so you wouldn't want that

 

[Jordon]

Grace is never rude and dominating....

was that a kind gesture or was you suggesting cam is dominating ?

Because grace isn't a means by which a person can condem

 

[cv5]

One doesn't have to understand the outworking of salvation to be saved. ***They*** only have to believe.

Who is "they"? Nobody?
Because the determinists' soteriology strictly FORBIDS this supposedly outrageous transgression of willful belief.
In fact, the Reformed view is that God cannot possibly accept anyone's faith, belief, trust, or anything of the sort, as it is a man-exalting "work", the very act of which invalidates and nullifies any erstwhile salvific benefit.

No, but a totally uninformed, abrupt mind-wipe is compulsory (devoid of informed consent or even perception), this being THE absolute necessary prerequisite for Calvinist-type salvation. They SLIGHTEST effort in seeking, the MEREST whispered asking, the utterly useless beating of the chest and cries of repentance MUST be rejected by God at all times and in all circumstances, as God is insulted by the "natural man's" heinous efforts.